Oklahoma:
We all remember the terrible period between 2000 and 2005 when Stoops’ squads would murder Texas every year and make examples out of 2-3 Big 12 teams. Then their run of terror in the Big 12 died a slow death from multiple BCS defeats culminating in the sack of Norman by Boise St. in 2007.
Texas has won 3 of the last 4 meetings, holds the Big 12 title and should hold the previous one as well. Perhaps what should really excite Texas fans about the end of one of the most brutal periods of college football since Barry Switzer is that Texas has been able to accomplish this with vastly inferior talent.
That’s right Trent Williams, once prophetically declared the greatest Left Tackle of all time, is up to no. 2 on this draft board with the monumentally stupid Lions snatching him up to keep Matthew Stafford healthy. Sounds reasonable, since that was how OU kept the no. 1 pick healthy enough to repeat their 2008 offensive excellence.
Gerald McCoy drops down to no. 7 in this draft with Sergio Kindle kicking things off for the woefully undermanned Texas at 16. We can only assume from these bits of draft analysis that 2008 OU was one of the greater teams crafted by mankind to dominate a gridiron.
They had 2 tackles drafted, all-conference guys at left guard and center, a defensive tackle comparable to probably the greatest to play in the Big 12, a first round Tight end, and a no. 1 pick quarterback. What conclusion can we come to from this information except that Bob Stoops wasted one of the most talented teams in Big 12 history? Unless Trent Williams and Gerald McCoy weren’t actually 2 of the finest linemen to play the game…
In other Oklahoma news, Big 12 blogger David Ubben has their strengths and weaknesses up at ESPN. The primary weakness is the offensive line, riddled by attrition and now the departure of Marcus Aurelius to the Elysium fields. Their primary strengths are their defensive ends which start with Jeremy Beal and Frank Alexander followed by a host of young talent I’m not excited about.
Texas figures to be really strong on defensive line, particularly if Sacho handles the assumption of Houston’s tasks, and fairly weak at Offensive tackle. Both teams strengths exploit the others’ weakness. In other words, another defensive struggle seems forthcoming unless one of these teams can build a clock controlling running game to dominate the game.
He also did one of these write-ups for Nebraska. One roadblock to their hold on the Eastern Empire, besides the loss of their best player, is the departure of both safeties who had a significant impact in their major defensive performances last season. They are stocked at tailback with Helu Jr. and Burkhead but their offense will have to improve several orders of magnitude to really have a chance of locking down the North and best Texas/South champion in the conference title.
Basketball:
Mashtun put in a request to the higher authorities (i.e. not me) to break down Barnes’ recruiting in determining if it’s really been very solid given the recent lack of parts in building the machine. He also asks for a “big-picture assessment” and not a year-by-year analysis. Well Mashtun, despite your lack of interest in my specific input or likely method (I’m going year-by-year) I have the free time to examine the question so I will do so.
Let’s start with 2002 when Barnes had landed Ford and put Texas on the recruiting map because it’s the first year I can find any archives for.
2002:
Kenton Paulino-no rating: Paulino was a solid guard who won the Sweet Sixteen game vs. West Virginia and held down the PG spot adequately when it arose that Gibson was actually a 2-guard in the Barnes offense. A solid pick-up for the year after selecting the greatest Point Guard the school has ever known.
Brad Buckman-5 star: You’re going to find a lot of ratings inflation here to the point that I’m not sure Rivals can be remotely trusted to judge basketball talent. Buckman was a strong rebounder, the rock of the 2004-05 team and somewhere a little south of being an all-conference player.
2003:
PJ Tucker-3 star: Feisty power forward and eventual 3 on the loaded 2006 team. We’re gonna find a lot of these lower star players being maximized in the Barnes era.
Edgar Moreno-3 star: Not this guy though, I’m not sure if he transferred out or what but the most I remember from him is maybe 5-6 minutes of providing relief for Ford. Maybe Trips can answer what happened to him.
Kenny Taylor-N/A: Stolen from Baylor after one of their players shot the other and the coach told them to lie about it. Was able to provide a starting presence on the 2005 team that held the program together before the arrival of LaMarcus.
This was one of Barnes fill in the gaps seasons when he would try to pick out diamonds in the rough to supplement his star classes.
2004:
Daniel Gibson-5 star: Barnes almost broke him down freshman year and he returned for a decent 2nd year that proved he wasn’t the right fit for the Barnes system since the aforementioned Paulino was able to lock down the starting Point Guard spot. Overall he contributed some strong value, not terrible results from a big time recruit.
Dion Dowell-4 star: I guess another one that couldn’t handle Barnes’ temperament as he transferred and became a solid starter at Houston.
Mike Williams-5 star: Williams had to play a lot of F/C in his early time and then transferred when playing time was imminent with Buckman and Tucker graduating and Aldridge leaving. He had a career much like Dowell’s somewhere else.
Connor Atchley-3 star: Connor was the perfect fit for a Barnes Texas team with his excellent screening, pick’n'pop shooting, and strong interior help and man defense.
LaMarcus Aldridge-5 star: I’m not sure if Texas really utilized Aldridge as best as they could have but he was an anchor in the 2-3 zone and the best player on an elite eight squad.
This was the first loaded Barnes recruiting class and it was relatively full of duds as Barnes recruited 2 guys that never amounted to anything special (Williams & Dowell) and didn’t even do that at Texas, a point guard who didn’t fit the system. Atchley and Aldridge were the model for what Texas inside players should look like for the random screening offense.
2005:
AJ Abrams-3 star: Given that Abrams was only a 3 star recruit it’s hard to call this anything other than another fine catch. He limited the Longhorns on defense with his tiny height and inability to play point or trade defensive assignments with Augustin but his shooting was ridiculous and one of the only means to offense in 2008-09. A worthwhile player on any College team, it’s not his fault he had to be the no. 1 offensive option.
Craig Winder-N/A: A transfer to add guard depth that did that for one Big 12 conference tournament and was a wasted scholarship for the rest of his career.
J.D. Lewis-N/A: Same story minus the production.
Our 2nd “fill in the gaps” class by Barnes where he has a 33% hit rate.
2006:
DJ Augustin-4 star: The 2nd best point guard in Texas basketball history. Sophomore Augustin could have led just about any given Texas roster this decade to the sweet sixteen at least.
Kevin Durant-5 star: …
Mat Hill-3 star: Another attempt to find a scrappy tall white guy to handle screening and interior D. I suppose the jury is somewhat out on him but thus far he has contributed nothing.
Dexter Pittman-3 star: Crafted by Todd Wright into a potentially dominant Center wasted by the lack of offensive design and personnel suited to putting him in places to succeed and building fitness to match his improved basketball body. Still, he did a lot as a 3 star.
Harrison Smith-4 star: I believe he transferred right? Worthless acquisition.
Damion James-5 star: A good fit for the offense and strong contributor all 4 seasons.
Justin Mason-4 star: Consistent defensive stopper who, at best, remained consistent on offense if not regressing over his time at Texas. Paired with shooters and creators he was a stat-stuffer but otherwise a limited role player.
The 2nd major star class with a lot more hits with James, DJ, and Kevin providing a ton of value for various periods of time. 33% yet again on the supplementary players. Mason was certainly a good pick-up and either knocks down the star level a little or upgrades the grade on supplementary guys depending on your expectations for his play here.
2007:
Dogus Balbay- 3 star: Maybe the best on-ball defender Barnes has had as well as one of the worst shooters. A better Freddie Williams basically and a guy worth having on any team.
Clint Chapman-4 star: He definitely has some athleticism and offensive talent but hasn’t made the court long enough to develop into a worthwhile asset. He at least looks the part for a Barnes forward; mobile, effective from 15 out, skinny. I think he might be worthwhile when he’s counted on in lieu of Pittman.
Gary Johnson-4 star: At 4 stars that puts him into the DJ, Mason, Dowell class of players and he compares favorably to all except DJ. Barnes has had success with undersized power forwards who love rebounding and have some effectiveness away from the basket. This is probably more or less what one of his templates for forwards should be.
Alexis Wangmene: 4-star: Another guy who can improve his rating by replacing Pittman effectively. There really isn’t any role for him on the team except as an occasional defensive stopper and his help defense doesn’t make him a great option there either. He’s shown a lot of potential on offense that is stymied by his rock hands.
This is probably best classified as a higher-rated “filler” class for Barnes with a 50% hit rate if viewed from that perspective.
2008:
Varez Ward-3 star: Definitely a supplement class with just another guard Barnes viewed as having potential value as a defensive player who has since emerged as a creator and possible team leader. One of the finer selections in recent years.
Ward was a nice pick-up but Barnes’ had a squad full of the misses from the 2004 and 2006 classes since the better talent had transferred or left for the NBA.
2009:
Avery Bradley-5 star: He hasn’t been a one-and-done on the level of Kevin Durant but if that’s your standard…Durant was, in fact, really the only freshman to excel for Barnes (save for TJ Ford). If he leaves that’s another more costly attrition but his value this season was actually quite high for a freshman.
J’Covan Brown-4 star: I think Brown has already established himself as a likely Gary Johnson level program player that has a lot of value for the next 3 years. He’s a solid fit for the offense provided the right pieces are around him.
Jordan Hamilton-5 star: The most talented player recruited since 2006. On a thinner team not stocked with defensively-trained role players he would have put up some big numbers this season. I’m confident a 2nd season will reveal this recruit to be one of Barnes’ best.
Shawn Williams-4 star: He can spot-up and shoot which means he has value in this offense and era of college basketball.
We’re getting too early to really rate these classes but this still seems like a great class as far as the star classes under Barnes have gone. Three of these guys have already shown a lot and if they depart for the NBA it only reinforces the need to make strong choices on the program players.
2010:
Tristan Thompson: Another hit for the better profile for a Rick Barnes forward. He can shoot and be effective in the high screen and away from the basket. Probably the best post-player recruited since LaMarcus Aldridge.
Guard?: Better be someone who can shoot.
The lesson here is, if you are going to rely on star-studded classes to have occasional bursts of excellence when the super-stars are present than a solid stock of program players who fit the system needs to be replenished well at a much higher percentage than Barnes has achieved to date. He simply isn’t versatile enough as a coach (or at least willing to be so) to build great teams around whatever talent is on hand.
He needs shooters at essentially every position and forwards who can be a threat away from the basket. To answer a question not really posed to me Mashtun, yes his success luring in some big stars along with some nice hits on the lower-rated guys has resulted in Barnes’ being somewhat overrated as a recruiter. However, I would characterize it more as a failure to recruit to the system rather than a failure to bring in talent.
Well that was long and probably only moderately informative, LeBron James told us a lot more recently in just a few words. I don’t think the temptations to pair up with stars in a big market of his choice can fail to pull King James away from the worst city in America.
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SynTex
March 22nd, 2010 at 11:19 am
That might be the first time in human history that Constantinople and Lincoln, Nebraska have been linked…. I like our Hippodrome better.
Max Fischer said:
March 22nd, 2010 at 11:46 am
Texas has won 3 of the last 4 against Oklahoma. Texas has also won 4 of the last 5. The second is the statistic I prefer.
drankthewine said:
March 22nd, 2010 at 11:48 am
we’ve actually beaten o.u. 4 out of the last 5 meetings. good read though. stoops recruits and develops excellent players. the fire left when little brother cruised to AZ. it’s still a solid program, but we’ve gotten inside their heads. i’m more concerned about the rise of NU.
Eskimohorn said:
March 22nd, 2010 at 11:52 am
Would have preferred some Normandy invasion references, either with William the Conqueror or Eisenhower. Bob Stoops redshirting some panzers would have been nice.
Nickel Rover said:
March 22nd, 2010 at 11:55 am
Bah, 4 out of the last 5. Can’t believe I forgot that one. Anytime I call to mind the early Stoops teams my brain tries to escape from the memory bank as quickly as possible.
The year is young Eskimohorn, I’ve got tons of potential WWII references to pull from and many morning(ish) columns to draw them out in.
quigley said:
March 22nd, 2010 at 12:00 pm
If Williams is drafted that high, it will be because the Lions completely ignore the 2009 film. Williams was a RT prior to 2009 and is better on that side. I think we can all agree that one player does not a OL make. McCoy, was, of course, excellent. Bradford and Gresham, were, of course, non-factors for 2009.
4/5 is very important. Hopefully, UT will regress to the mean this year. First year starters in Dallas do not, historically, fair well. Regardless of Nickel’s impressions, I do not see as precipitous a drop off in OU’s D as UT’s O.
NY Horn said:
March 22nd, 2010 at 12:15 pm
You also have to note that the ESPN Big 12 blogger has like 6 OU players on their all-conference watch list with Texas 2. I don’t suppose that OU’s monopoly on talent in the Big 12 will curtail next year in the slightest.
lazer2280 said:
March 22nd, 2010 at 12:35 pm
A lot of people seem really concerned about the rise of NU. I would say I am keeping it on my radar, but I’m not overly concerned as of yet. They played their pants off and almost beat us in the Big 12 title game, so there’s that. But they also lost to Iowa State. At home. When half the cyclones allegedly had the flu. So there’s that. For now, I kind of think of NU as bizarro ATM. As good as Nebraska was on defense last year, they were equally horrid on offense. As good as ATM was on offense last year, they were equally horrid on defense. Both teams are showing signs of improvement, but neither really concerns me yet.
06_UT said:
March 22nd, 2010 at 12:36 pm
quigley, I seem to remember some random first year starter doing pretty well a few years ago.
06_UT said:
March 22nd, 2010 at 12:41 pm
They also handled OU and Tech a little better than we did. So there is also that. I am concerned about the away game with them next year. I hope it is not snowing at that point.
dick said:
March 22nd, 2010 at 12:50 pm
“quigley, I seem to remember some random first year starter doing pretty well a few years ago.”
One first year RRS starter won and the other first year RRS starter lost. Something had to give. Chizik probably made the trip to sign on the dotted line in Ames the next day because our D was awesome that Saturday afternoon and was pretty shitty afterwards.
Patrick Bateman said:
March 22nd, 2010 at 12:55 pm
Excellent work, Nickel. Mike Williams is probably the biggest “star” player that didn’t work out. He went on to a non-descript career, so it may not have just been Texas where he failed. The thing I find most interesting about our recruiting is the lack of true wingmen (Dowell, Smith, and Hamilton) and lack of recruits with any athleticism above 6’8″.
If you consider that Damion will probably measure 6’7″+, then who? Big men and then undersized at every position. It’s simply odd. Buckman was really the only true 4 we recruited with 4 size. Alexei being a 4 star is so wrong….Tristan will be the first athletic big man we’ve had besides LaMarcus and we went deep with him. Tristan is supposedly a tad below 6’9″…..
magnusbleuveigner said:
March 22nd, 2010 at 1:02 pm
“Hopefully, UT will regress to the mean this year.”
Back to back 1 loss seasons since Muschamp got to town. This is the mean.
sunset87 said:
March 22nd, 2010 at 1:24 pm
“The thing I find most interesting about our recruiting is the lack of true wingmen (Dowell, Smith, and Hamilton) and lack of recruits with any athleticism above 6′8″. ”
I agree…why is it that Baylor, A&M and just about every other decent B12 team seems to be able to recruit and have 2 to 3, 6’8″ athletic big men on their roster. Are they recruiting 6’6″ and 6’7″ guys that are growing once they get to campus or are we just missing on these types? I got to believe, some of it is that these kids are growing once they arrive, becuase I can’t imagine that we can’t recruit with the other Big 12 schools… and really most top 20 programs in the country right now.
mpayne said:
March 22nd, 2010 at 1:40 pm
I’ve seen Tristan Thompson listed from 6’9 to 6’10″. I haven’t seen the 6’8″ listing since his sophomore year.
Nickel Rover said:
March 22nd, 2010 at 1:43 pm
Quigly, I appreciate your comments, it’s great to get some northern opinion.
I think it’s possible that Texas fields a very capable offense, they have as much talent to work with as OU does for their new defense.
Re: tall wings. CJ Miles would have been one but skipped to the NBA. Hamilton is one, Durant was another but he played a guard/center position here. Barnes has done really well with undersized power forwards and then 3 guard lineups, until he has to guard Carmelo or Memphis wings.
Patrick Bateman said:
March 22nd, 2010 at 1:50 pm
Nickel,
He’s done well with lineups until the last couple of years. Damion was a freak but no eraser in the middle makes it difficult to protect the paint. Even when we had Connor, he could do a little of that. Dexter just was too much of a liability and Barnes did a horrible job of protecting him on defense. But not having anyone behind him was inexcusable. Two undersized 4′s just won’t cut it anymore….3 stiffs may end up wasted scholarships. That’s really disappointing and debilitating…..
NY Horn said:
March 22nd, 2010 at 1:52 pm
I’m actually pretty excited with this point regarding our offense, except for the tackles. Hopefully Walters can miraculously come back and claim the starting LT spot, and Hix can go to RT where he is better suited.
Next year’s offense will have worse stats overall, but I think they will be far more balanced and sound against tougher defenses than 2009′s was. If you had elite athletes, you could destroy our offense last year, and due to its lack of flexibility we couldn’t really adjust. We practically played offense in a 10 yard window regardless of where we actually were on the field. The only reason it worked was due to the fact we had guys as supremely talented for that scheme in Shipley and McCoy.
Next year our talent won’t be at that level yet but our scheme should be much less retarded, resulting in our offense behaving much more consistently than last year’s. We won’t destroy the tomato cans as thoroughly, but we also won’t embarrass ourselves against real defenses as thoroughly either.
Eskimohorn said:
March 22nd, 2010 at 2:04 pm
Trent Williams & Bradford over Suh? I think that’s a stretch. Suh was filthy and far and away the best DT – a once in a decade prospect for his position. I think Williams is a 1st rounder, but think Okung would be a better LT prospect. Perhaps they’re wanting compensation to trade down.
Nickel Rover said:
March 22nd, 2010 at 2:13 pm
I think it’s ridiculous but apparently that’s what the rumblings are from those top teams. I don’t have enough faith in the rationality of those running the Lions to believe they are above such a stupid move as taking Trent Williams over Suh.
PB: I meant he has done well using undersized guys at the 4. Muoneke, Erskin, James, Williams, Tucker, Johnson.
I agree, 2 undersized PFs with 3 guards is not the answer we are looking for and while it fits with the scheme well it always fails in the tournament against big teams with athleticism. I’m going to start devouring Thompson tape soon in the hope that he can be the savior inside.
NateHeupel said:
March 22nd, 2010 at 2:57 pm
“Texas…holds the Big 12 title and should hold the previous one as well.”
It’s very simple. Stop scheduling 4 sisters of the weak in your out of conference, and the BCS won’t be a problem.
magnus,
I think you underestimate just how incompetent Greg Davis really is.
Patrick Bateman said:
March 22nd, 2010 at 3:23 pm
But, but, but we have UCLA this year! Okay, maybe not. At least they’re a name….
quigley said:
March 22nd, 2010 at 5:23 pm
magnusbleuveigner: RE regression to the mean.
I should have clarified. I meant the offense, in particular, the passing offense. If another 1st year QB comes in and completes 70+ percent of his passes and UT has another Shipley (I know, roommates again?), in the wings to haul in those passes, that will indeed be remarkable. Davis truly has to be revered as a mastermind. Even a very good Gilbert year, combined with an improved UT rushing attack would likely only be equivalent to what UT trotted out this year.
BTW, saying you offense is great except for the OT positions is like saying…too many and too easy. How do you expect to pass the ball, or get to the edge in the running game?
Nickel Rover said:
March 22nd, 2010 at 5:26 pm
NateHeupel, stop leaving BCS performance bonuses out of the contracts and the bowl games won’t be a problem.
What a stupid counter argument to an obvious screwjob. Texas had probably the toughest 4 week stretch in the Mack Brown era and barely came out of it with a loss. There was nothing about the process that would lead to a credible argument in favor of Oklahoma.
Nickel Rover said:
March 22nd, 2010 at 5:32 pm
Quigley, good questions but I think Magnus is right. Hix and Mitchell in pass protection and run blocking will likely be 2 different stories. Hix at least is a great run-blocker, and the line is better built for it then it has been since maybe 2006.
Texas will probably never be as good in the short passing game again as it was in 2008 but they can be more balanced overall on offense with a strong running game and play-action/screen game based off of it.
Also, I think OU will eventually have to get used to the idea that Gilbert may be the most talented passer Texas has had in the Mack Brown era as terrible as it must be to accept that yet another genius could take the helms of the offense after the last 2. Texas fans faced a similar dilemna in accepting that Bradford was probably the best pocket quarterback OU has had since Troy Aikman.
drankthewine said:
March 22nd, 2010 at 5:48 pm
Greg Davis is not incompetent. i realize i’m supposed to believe he’s a douche, but he currently develops college QB’s better than anyone in the country. we’re also top five or ten in scoring every single year. when you have a QB like McCoy was, you just let him play nintendo. this year we’ll run the ball more, he’ll develop Gilbert and we’ll have a sparkling offense. as always. doesn’t really matter anyway. our defense is on the verge of going romper stomper, intimidating and ripping the dignity away from whichever bitch stands in front of us.
NY Horn said:
March 22nd, 2010 at 6:44 pm
The interior of our line will also be far superior next year compared to what we trotted out this past year. Combined with a two-back offense, and a QB that throws an NFL deep ball, I think we’ll be fine. I think we’ll manage at the tackle spots, Hix isn’t a good fit at LT, but it’s not like we’re trotting out a 270lb true freshman either. If we can get okay play from him, we’ll be plenty fine.
Opposing defenses not being able to pin their ears back the entire game going after the QB will also make his job a lot easier this year compared to what Uli had to deal with last year.
The defense not knowing what we are going to be running every single play will help mitigate the personnel shortcomings we will have on offense.
Hookah said:
March 22nd, 2010 at 11:20 pm
Nate,
That’s funny, didn’t ’08 OU play a non-FBS opponent that didn’t even affect their cpu SOS?
shockthenation said:
March 23rd, 2010 at 5:01 am
“They also handled OU and Tech a little better than we did. So there is also that. I am concerned about the away game with them next year. I hope it is not snowing at that point.”
Didn’t Tech beat Nebraska like a drum?
Ron said:
March 23rd, 2010 at 9:17 am
funny how Stoops and OU has suffered since 05, only 3 Big 12 Titles in a row after 05, Stoops 6 Big 12 titles to Mack’s 2…but always funny to read here with the appropriate carnival name…lol!
quigley said:
March 23rd, 2010 at 10:25 am
NY:
OU’s defensive strength is it’s ends. Your post indicated the weakness of your OTs. That is a good matchup, for OU.
Nickel:
Gilbert may be the most talented passer in forevers. That said, it’s got to translate to the field. Replacing a Heisman runner-up is no easy task so Gilbert could have a very successful career and not reach anywhere near the level McCoy did. We got spoiled with Bradford too. Regarding the other side of the pitch and catch, who’s going to catch those balls? No reply to that part of the equation that I’ve seen.
My overall point is that UT has several question marks that this board has highlighted. Certainly, a win-is-a-win, but UT did not dominate an OU team with little or no contribution from its 3 best offensive players last year. The “Fall of Rome” may be premature.
ursa major said:
March 23rd, 2010 at 12:37 pm
Still think you guys way overvalue Pittman.
Mister Mike said:
March 24th, 2010 at 9:40 am
Indeed. However Nebraska held them to their lowest yardage output of the season. Around 240, IIRC.
Didn’t matter though. The final score is what matters.
horn1 said:
March 24th, 2010 at 5:39 pm
Did you just compare Dogus Balbay with Freddie Williams?
I’d take Freddie Williams over Balbay 365 days a year.