Football Articles
A Quick Look At Vince’s Progress
Posted by TaylorTRoom on December 21st, 2009 under Football
Remember the 2006 NFL Draft of QBs? Tennessee took Young with the 3rd pick, Arizona took Leinart around 10th, and Denver took Cutler 11th. After the first year, the general consensus was that Tennessee, gambling on an unpolished passer like Young might have caught lightning in a bottle, Leinart just needed time, and that canny old sage, Mike Shanahan, found the real jewel in the bunch in Jay Cutler. Vince made the Pro Bowl as an alternate, but was still very rough as a passer. Cutler looked like the best QB out of the box. Since QB is the NFL’s most important position, and each of these players ended their rookie years as starters, this trio were destined to be matched and compared for as long as they played.
After 2007, and little improvement passing, Vince Young skeptics started speaking out. He had a nice December, and the Titans made the playoffs, but he was still nothing like a conventional top NFL QB. When the Titans lost, it was usually easy to find a play or two where he made a sub-par play, an inexplicable throw. Leinart lost his job to resurgent former MVP Kurt Warner. Jay Cutler continued to impress, even as the Broncos once again failed to make the playoffs.
In 2008, Vince Young had a very public meltdown during a game against the Jaguars the first week of the season. He lost his starting job to Kerry Collins, who led the Titans on a long winning streak to the conference’s best record. Collins didn’t play exceptionally well, but he was more of the “game manager” that Fisher preferred at the position, and so was rewarded with a new contract. Speculation began over where Young would play next, if he were given another chance.
In 2008, Leinart hardly played at all, becoming an afterthought. Cutler made the Pro Bowl, but once again the Broncos had a losing record, costing Shanahan his job. The Broncos hired Pats OC Josh McDaniel as the new head coach, and the spread QB guru got off on the wrong foot with Cutler. Cutler demanded a trade, and was sent to the Bears, where he was expected to be the final piece of a championship team. Leinart figured to stay in a holding pattern, waiting for another chance to play when either Warner slips or the Cardinals trade him.
2009 could hardly be better for Young or worse for Cutler. It turns out that Chicago QBs struggled so much, not because they sucked, but because the Bears offense sucked. Cutler has really struggled, and probably wishes he had stayed in Denver to work with the guy who made a star out of Matt Cassell. Meanwhile, Young was given another chance after the Titans started the season 0 – 6 (at the owner’s insistence- Fisher still didn’t trust him). He has played lights out, and the Titans had an amazing turn-around. Over the first 6 games, the average Titans score was 14 – 33. Since Young became the starter, the Titans have gone 7 – 1, and averaged a score of 29 – 16. Young is making plays and protecting the ball.
Check out the following stats. They are career passing, running and sack stats. You see that over their careers, Cutler is a better passer, with a lesser likelihood of taking a sack. Young takes a sack about every 17 times he goes back to pass. For his career, Cutler takes almost 22 pass play attempts for every sack. Counting rushing yards, and yards lost to sacks, Cutler averages 6.3 yards/play, better than Young’s 5.85 yards/play and Leinart’s 5.69. Those stats all support what everybody thought at season’s beginning.
Now see the same stats for the past 16 regular season starts of each QB. Young has been significantly better than before, as a passer, and as a protector of the ball. Cutler has done notably worse. Now, the QBs have switched positions. Young appears to be the rising young star, mastering this most difficult of positions. Cutler appears to be the guy who is a little overwhelmed by everything.
The final metric is winning. So far, Young is 25 – 13 (counting that playoff loss), 12 – 4 over his last 16 He has saved his coach’s job once, and may be doing so again this year. Cutler is 22 – 29, 5 – 11 over his last 16, and has seen his first coach fired and may be working on his second. Leinart is 7 – 10, and saw the coach who drafted him fired. Fun stuff. Thoughts?
Be sure to check the chart HERE.
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Activity
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Patrick Bateman commented on the blog post Texas Hoops vs. Wake Forest: Post Mortem 10 minutes ago
“This may seem arrogant but I believe its true – if you are a coach in virtually any sport at UT, you will be a good recruiter. The state is loaded with athletes, including basketball players, UT as a university is top-notch by virtually any measure and just really doesn’t have any serious in-state competition.”
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skymonkeyhorn commented on the blog post Texas Hoops vs. Wake Forest: Post Mortem 19 minutes ago
Trips, I love you man ! Of course its man Love and not like the love you have with Henry…..
You are the very best of all the talking heads on Texas Basketball, your knowledge is vast and your style is dynamic and you reach the crazies with your knowledge on hoops.
You are right about the
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GoHornsGo90 commented on the blog post Texas Hoops vs. Wake Forest: Post Mortem 22 minutes ago
It’s not Brown’s fault they made a bad call. It is Brown’s fault giving the ball up there. In his defense, he was in a pretty sick spot in the corner. Not in his defense, he is allowed to dribble and shouldn’t BE in the corner in the first place.
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Texastough commented on the blog post Texas Hoops vs. Wake Forest: Post Mortem 27 minutes ago
I started that post before any of the other comments. Didn’t know redundancy could be so long-winded.
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Texastough commented on the blog post Texas Hoops vs. Wake Forest: Post Mortem 31 minutes ago
On the Barnes talk, I really don’t have enough Bball knowledge to have an ultimate opinion, only some preliminary thoughts/questions:
This may seem arrogant but I believe its true – if you are a coach in virtually any sport at UT, you will be a good recruiter. The state is loaded with athletes, including basketball
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GoHornsGo90 commented on the blog post Texas Hoops vs. Wake Forest Open thread 32 minutes ago
GigoloJoe:
He’s like Frank Martin…without the really, really good coaching ability and DC recruiting connection.
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JungleHeat wrote a new blog post: Champions League Draw 43 minutes ago
The draw for the quarterfinal round took place today in Nyon Switzerland.
The match ups are here
Unstoppable?
It really couldn’t be any worse for Arsenal as they drew Barcelona and will have to face the defending champions at the Emirates to begin the round. Waiting for the winner of that match up will be the winner of
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Trips Right commented on the blog post FLV March Madness First Round Bets 1 hour ago
chitwood, yes, I had Baylor. Didn’t want to cross swords with dick on this thread.
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Triston27 commented on the blog post Big Dance: Day Two 1 hour, 6 minutes ago
I was actually thinking the same thing when I first saw them. If it ain’t broken…
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Hiphopopotamus commented on the blog post Big Dance: Day Two 1 hour, 14 minutes ago
I figured they worked out well for us yesterday…no reason to adjust format.
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texasengr commented on the blog post Texas Hoops vs. Wake Forest: Post Mortem 1 hour, 16 minutes ago
I’ve been waiting for this since I finished watching this game at midnight. I was on the fence on Rick until the final 2 minutes of OT last night.
FUCK RICK BARNES!!!!!!
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texasengr commented on the blog post Texas Hoops vs. Wake Forest: Post Mortem 1 hour, 16 minutes ago
I’ve been waiting for this since I finished watching this game at midnight. I was on the fence on Rick until the final 2 minutes of OT last night.
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Trips Right commented on the blog post Texas Hoops vs. Wake Forest Open thread 1 hour, 19 minutes ago
Savage, I read that too. That’s on Brown.
I’d kill everyone on the thread for Jimmer Freddette. Think about that.
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Trips Right wrote a new blog post: Texas Hoops vs. Wake Forest: Post Mortem 1 hour, 23 minutes ago
Last post-mortem of the season, so we’ve got that going for us, which is nice.
Just a few thoughts on the game. I’ll do a season wrap up and preliminary preview in the next few days to tie everything in.
First off, it’s a challenge to continue to write these and not repeat what’s
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Hiphopopotamus wrote a new blog post: Big Dance: Day Two 1 hour, 48 minutes ago
A quick recap of yesterday’s action before we get to today’s tilts.
Midwest – Kansas and Northern Iowa take care of business at the top. Tennessee squeaks by San Diego St, and the shocker of the day, Georgetown falls to Ohio. Just a complete no-show by the Hoyas, which we all knew they were capable
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dick commented on the blog post FLV March Madness First Round Bets 1 hour, 56 minutes ago
I tailed Trips’ over on BYU and under on ND so I ended up more than fine yesterday. I’m not in the mood for humour after last night but I’ll throw up some quick picks in a second.
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Phenomenal Smith commented on the blog post First Round: Clemson Tigers 2 hours, 19 minutes ago
I knew what you meant with the homer comment.
I agree that it mostly comes down to Denmon and English shooting well again. They don’t have set career highs, but they do have to at least hit their season averages for Mizzou to have a chance.
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whiskey commented on the blog post Chalk Talk: The ND 3-4 Transition Part II- Defensive Line 4 hours, 8 minutes ago
LB Coach right before we moved over here usmc53 left the below question for you in response to one of your comments. Based on this post I take it the NT is just reading the Center’s head after the snap. I thought he asked a great question though and didn’t want it to
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Phenomenal Smith commented on the blog post First Round: Clemson Tigers 4 hours, 19 minutes ago
I agree that the Tigers will win.
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whiskey commented on the blog post Chalk Talk: The ND 3-4 Transition Part I- Expectations 4 hours, 21 minutes ago
I am starting to feel progressivley optomistic. Hopefully we can glean some discernable info about how this transition is going during spring practice. Valpodoc, glad to see you are still with us here at the new place. Your comments always add to the quality of the discussion.
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Phenomenal Smith commented on the blog post Chase Daniel makes The Economist 4 hours, 21 minutes ago
Well, here at AT we talk about Chase Daniel coming back to Mizzou to coach QBs and recruit the Dallas area. We haven’t taken it off the table, but not sure it carries much predictive value on our table.
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Ibas water bottle commented on the blog post Oklahoma Sooners – Recruiting So Far 4 hours, 32 minutes ago
Oklahoma sports media coverage is slanted towards OU? I refuse to believe Dean Blevins would do that.
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Ibas water bottle wrote a new blog post: NCAA tournament day two 5 hours, 4 minutes ago
If we can stop Stephon Marbury from eating the rest of the Vaseline we have a chance.
Peter Graves has more life than my bracket. I pick games like Gary Johnson shoots free throws. Nebraska is better off in the standings than I am in the bracket contest. Get the point? Yesterday was one of
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GoHornsGo90 commented on the blog post Texas Hoops vs. Wake Forest Open thread 9 hours, 45 minutes ago
Barnes’ three “strengths”:
Defense, rebounding, recruiting.
This team just proved the first two are non-existent (out-rebounded by 25; fucking KIDDING me?) and the last one is over-hyped as well. Every ESPN basketball recruiting analyst who actually had Bradley ahead of Wall should be taken out back and executed Inglourious Basterds style.
I hate Turgeon and I
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skymonkeyhorn commented on the blog post Texas Hoops vs. Wake Forest Open thread 10 hours, 29 minutes ago
a Good System will usually beat a talented team that does not play together and are thinking instead of playing basketball ,over a season the system wins more then they will give away.
A team that is scared to make a mistake and thinks before they react is going to lose to a confident but -
Patrick Bateman commented on the blog post Texas Hoops vs. Wake Forest Open thread 12 hours, 3 minutes ago
Nordberg,
Ironic indeed……teachable moment, I guess….
NY Horn,
I hope your drunk, because Izzo ain’t coming to Texas……Why don’t we just get Coach K. I mean Coach G came from Duke, they have to be dying to get out of Durham….
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Trips Right commented on the blog post Texas Hoops vs. Wake Forest Open thread 12 hours, 7 minutes ago
Egg, that’s fine, but at what point do you blame Barnes? Seriously, man. You’ve thrown players under the bus left and right, but at a certain point, doesn’t the buck stop somewhere. I know you’re more of an NBA guy so it begins and ends with players there, but we need fucking
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Trips Right commented on the blog post Texas Hoops vs. Wake Forest Open thread 12 hours, 7 minutes ago
Egg, that’s fine, but at what point do you blame Barnes? Seriously, man. You’ve thrown players under the bus left and right, but at a certain point, doesn’t the buck stop somewhere. I know you’re more of an NBA guy so it begins and ends with players there, but we need fucking
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Patrick Bateman commented on the blog post Texas Hoops vs. Wake Forest Open thread 12 hours, 8 minutes ago
Trips,
I hear ya. I’m frustrated as well. I guess I just don’t prescribe to such a black and white characterization of the situation. I do know that no matter what happened in the huddle, JCB made a dumb play. If Rick didn’t explain or remind him of the situation, then I
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Trips Right commented on the blog post Texas Hoops vs. Wake Forest Open thread 12 hours, 16 minutes ago
Pat, know I don’t, but I’ve had coaches draw up plays to free up the best foul shooter and then tell that guy they’d put their foot up his ass if they passed the ball. It’s funny, but as a fans of football we nitpick blitz pickup and shit like that. Shit that’s
Ricky said:
December 21st, 2009 at 6:46 pm
Don’t forget Cutler got drafted by team that had been to the playoffs three of the previous four years including 2005 (they got the 11th pick in a trade). Plummer had them on the path to a playoff birth in ‘06 but was starting to slide so in comes Cutler. The team was still in the driver’s seat for a playoff birth but Cutler couldn’t beat a weak SF team to get his team into the playoffs (he was 2-3 in ‘06 as a starter)…reminiscent of his inability to beat a weak Middle Tennessee State team the year before to get his team a long-awaited bowl game.
Cutler has had all the best cards dealt to him but he has consistently failed to deliver. He took a perennial playoff team in Denver down a notch and cost Shanahan his job. He is not a winner. He has gun, but he doesn’t have the leadership. He would be Jeff George except for the fact that he has generally played for good or decent teams, while George always seemed to get the call from teams scraping at the bottom of the barrel.
LosHorn said:
December 21st, 2009 at 6:57 pm
Young wins games. Period. That’s what he’s always been about. And now he’s doing it pretty to shut up all the talking heads at ESPN who are in a full scale backpedal.
Cutler is a whiny baby, but last season was not his fault. Their defense was as embarassing as Texas’ OL this year.
TaylorTRoom said:
December 21st, 2009 at 7:30 pm
I have nothing against Cutler. I think he is an example of what happens when a player goes from a good sytem to a bad system. Remember, last year Orton was the boob.
p said:
December 21st, 2009 at 9:25 pm
If you look deeper at Cutler, you see a guy who commits the costly turnover more times then not, when he has a chance to win. Young is the opposite. He plays awful sometimes, only to turn it around at the crucial point of a ball game. I did a similar comparison to Rodgers before the season. Young first season, he had the ball in his hands at the end of the game with a chance to win 6 times, and went 4-2. f the two losses, one he drove the team 60+ yards to the 20 against the Ravens, only to have the winning kick blocked. The other loss, was an incomplete pass against the Colts earlier in the year.
Rogers also had the ball with a chance to win his first year 6 times. He went 0-6.
Some guys just don’t show up at the end of games. Cutler is showing right now, what we all saw at Vandy. He does not improve a team.
Sugarpants said:
December 21st, 2009 at 10:12 pm
Young also has much better weapons this year in Britt and Washington. Those guys make Gage and the TEs into credible threats.
I don’t know who Cutler has that is worth a damn… Knox is probably a practice squader on most NFL teams, Bennett about the same, and Devin Hester is a brilliant return man as a WR.
Young has definitely proved people wrong that he can’t throw a deep ball accurately. Frankly, I think from a skills perspective he and Cutler are a wash, but VY doesn’t pout anymore and Cutler is getting worse.
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December 21st, 2009 at 10:26 pm
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admin said:
December 21st, 2009 at 10:28 pm
SpiralOut said:
December 21st, 2009 at 11:00 pm
I think one thing people tend to forget is that both Leinart and Cutler had far and away more talent to work with than Vince.
Vince went to play for a guy in Fisher who supposedly didn’t even want him in the first place. Norm Chow was never able to hack it as an NFL OC and McNair and Volek both publicly said they hated his offense. The Fisher led Titans just LOVED running the ball and kicking field goals. They had little receiving talent on that team when Vince showed up in 2006.
After Vince’s amazing rookie season, the Titans promptly let Travis Henry, Drew Bennett, and Bobby Wade walk. In return, Vince got Justin Gage, Roydell Williams, Brandon Jacobs, and an overweight LenDale White. In other words, a nice big steaming pile of shit.
Of COURSE he was going to struggle. As Godlike as Vince can be out there on the field, even he can’t work miracles that big. Well, I do suppose it could be considered a miracle to have led that team to 10 wins and the playoffs in the toughest division in the entire league that year. Yet he got no credit for it. He also didn’t get any credit for improving his yardage, completion percentage, yards per completion, etc.; all while being hurt for the large majority of the year.
Meanwhile, Leinart has two superstars in Fitzgerald and Boldin along with Edge in the backfield. Cutler took over a team that had gone to the AFC Championship the year before and he had phenomenal guys like Brandon Marshall, Brandon Stokeley, and Eddie Royal to throw to along with that “insert random RB and immediately gain 1000 yards” run game.
It’s just amazing how many people were so quick to write Vince off. I can understand not having complete faith in the guy after 9 TDs to 17 INTs and then his 2008 meltdown after his injury or whatever. Still, a bunch of ‘tards immediately started acting like he was never any good to begin with and that he had lost all his athletic ability, blah blah blah. Fuckin’ Tennessee Titans fans were the worst. Those dumb rednecks replayed the “We want Neil O’Donnell over McNair!” shit like they never even remembered how that played out before.
Vince got dealt to a shitty team with a shitty coach with shitty talent. I think he’s done pretty well just by surviving. Now that the Titans finally have some skill players worth a shit (receiving corps still isn’t anything to write home about) and Fisher can’t fuck Vince over at every chance, he’s back into God mode. Surprise, surprise.
After making two road trips to California and watching Vince dominant two Rose Bowls, I learned to never doubt that man or his ability to take over and dominate regardless of the situation. I’m surprised that everyone else either didn’t learn or forgot that lesson.
NFL draft said:
December 21st, 2009 at 11:27 pm
Do you know who am I?Do you want more interesting?
The NFL is working with Boston University’s Center for the Study of Traumatic Encephalopathy to study brain trauma in football. The league will ask former and current NFL players to donate their brains to science. Presumably, with fancy boxes to ship the brains, like they do for Super Bowl rings.
Page 2 loves this idea.
Scientists could study Mark Sanchez’s brain to find out what he doesn’t understand about the words “double-covered.” They could study Tony Sparano’s brain to find out what he sees in Pat White that no one else does. And they could look at Brett Favre’s brain on the subject of waffling.
jinx said:
December 22nd, 2009 at 7:01 am
Cutler is a major douche. If you don’t believe me, I’m pretty sure you could find his post game comments after the UF game in his last year and verify for yourself.
lowery said:
December 22nd, 2009 at 8:37 am
I believe he said that almost beating Florida was “amazing.” Whatever.
Listen, as far as Vince goes I will admit to some vagina rubbing in private. From what I saw, you had a QB that relied upon his mobility being told to be Tom Brady. I wasn’t sure I could even hope on that changing. On top of that, Vince was no longer an 18yo 6-5 200lb deer.
Its not that I didn’t think he had all the talent in the world, but as I’ve said before in Vince the Titans bought a Porsche to go camping in. I’m elated that at least some realized what they had, and that C Johnson turned out to be simply amazing. The end result is a pick your poison that is difficult to survive.
huge said:
December 22nd, 2009 at 8:48 am
Cutler’s body language in losses this year has been horrendous.
hodad said:
December 22nd, 2009 at 11:00 am
To be fair to Cutler, the Bears line lost three starters in the offseason and has been absolutely horrible this year. Forte went from 4.9 ypc to about 3.1 this year as a result. Their playcalling has been ludicrously predictable this year too – first down run up the middle for 1 yard. Second down run off tackle for -2 yards. Third down pass – either incomplete or intercepted after Cutler gets less than two seconds in the pocket. Punt.
I know all this because I was dumb enough to take Forte with the #4 overall pick in my fantasy draft this year.
Woody Bombay said:
December 22nd, 2009 at 11:10 am
Still, Leinart is getting more tail than the other two combined. And that’s his top priority, so he wins!
Old Bastard said:
December 22nd, 2009 at 12:44 pm
What the hell is wrong with Limas?
hodad said:
December 22nd, 2009 at 3:15 pm
Same thing that’s wrong with Roy Williams. He can’t catch.
panchoclaus said:
December 23rd, 2009 at 8:31 am
Old Bastard – that’s what I would like to know.
homesickalien said:
December 23rd, 2009 at 2:03 pm
This thread is very full of win. As is Vince.
And I want to take this opportunity to tell all of you who kicked him when he was down to impolitely go fuck yourselves. You know who you are. Those of you who smugly laughed at him when he said he’d be the next black QB to win the Super Bowl and that he would go to the Hall of Fame. Those of you who felt embarrassed of him and took Fisher’s version of events last year as the gospel truth. Those of you who questioned his maturity and ability and basically every other thing you could about him. Those of you who preferred Cutler. Fuck you very much in your neck. Merry Christmas.
Vince Young. Forever. Unconditionally.
Mike said:
December 23rd, 2009 at 4:36 pm
Vince’s studliness as a QB aside, I think everybody has forgotten to address the issue of coaching; most especially OL coaching and offensive coaching in general.
Leinart may have had Boldin, Fitz, and Edge (cough, a past his prime Edge) on his side, but can you think of a Cardinals team that has ever really protected their QB and had a good running scheme at the same time? Their line is average in how they play. That may have turned around a bit over the last two seasons, but it was too late to help Leinart.
Personally I couldn’t give two squirts of piss about Leinart, but the pass protection and play calling were pathetic when I watched him play for ‘zona.
Cutler has gone where QBs go to watch their careers die and Fisher was grabbed by the nutsack and told forcefully to start the guy they’re paying all that money. And the situation has unfurled predictably in both cases.
Meanwhile, Ricky continues to impress the hell out of me. Cedric, in spite of a decent season? Not so much. It all goes to show that in the NFL where (forced) parity rules, anything can happen.
In any case, Go Vince. I’m rooting for you all the way.
SpiralOut said:
December 23rd, 2009 at 7:50 pm
The difference being, Mike, that the sports media didn’t go out of their way to fuck Leinart over and call him out every chance they got. They didn’t rationally look at Cutler’s play/problems and speak up about how he was/is a choker, a horrid red-zone passer, a loser, and a whiny cunt.
However, they sure didn’t have any qualms about bashing Vince every chance they got and acting like he was never any good and would never amount to shit. All the while conveniently ignoring how shitty Vince’s receiving help, coaching, and run game were there in Tennessee.
It’s the double standards I don’t like. Along with individuals for some reason feeling like they need to go overboard on the Vince hate. I don’t mind criticism of Vince’s play, but it’s ridiculous that Vince has guys like Merrill Hoge calling him the “initial dismantling of an organization” before he ever takes a snap in the NFL while Leinart and Cutler get/got pass after pass after pass.
Jackanape said:
December 24th, 2009 at 6:51 pm
Good post, Spiral. Vince elicits passion on both sides of the debate.
Homesick Alien said:
December 24th, 2009 at 10:55 pm
SpiralOut,
To begin with, you and I are so “here” when it comes to Vince.
And as for why the media went so far overboard with him, I’m inclined to believe the whispers out there that they may have had a certain Head Coach feeding them negative info about Vince.
Maybe that’s too Alex Jonesy. Or whatever that conspiracy guy’s name is.
But I think the media would feel much more emboldened to lay it on thick if they were hearing things from the guy’s own coach.
Is it really so hard to imagine Peter King rubbing his cooter on the phone with Jeff Fisher while Fisher did Vince dirt left and right?
I am such a total Mama Bear about Vince. And damned proud of it. I am Leigh Ann Tuohy meets a cornered rat when it comes to Vince.