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1. fitzhume said:

   November 19th, 2009 at 6:27 pm

   To your last question, absolutely not. It would have surfaced next year once their history-making offense had departed.

   Great post, btw.

2. TaylorTRoom said:

   November 19th, 2009 at 6:28 pm

   I think where Mangino went wrong was where he focused his criticisms. It’s one thing to cuss a player for doing something wrong- it’s a disservice for a coach to not point it out. It’s another thing altogether to criticize a kid for who he is (product of screwed up home, refugee from hellhole, etc.). That’s just being cruel, and reveals deep character flaws.

3. Scipio Tex said:

   November 19th, 2009 at 6:33 pm

   Taylor –

   Exactly. That’s what I mean by betraying them emotionally (I’m assuming people read the companion piece). You just did a much better job of explaining it.

   fitzhume-

   Thanks and you’re right.

4. czarcw said:

   November 19th, 2009 at 6:44 pm

   Mangino’s behavior smacks of hateful abuse, where he views the players as a piece of meat to be thrown around the field for 3 hours. This may seem like posturing, but I’d hate for Texas to have a coach like that regardless of win-loss record. If we have to hire a coach like that to be competitive nationally, I’d rather just accede defeat than relinquish the principles of what it means to coach.

   The basis of a good mentor-mentee relationship is helping someone fulfill their potential. I don’t see that happening when you rush someone back from injury, degrade them in a misguided attempt to motivate, or don’t foster character growth.

5. Charlie said:

   November 19th, 2009 at 6:46 pm

   When you start criticizing people who can’t help how they are born or the environment they came from you rob them of their self confidence. I do not have an IQ of 170 like Doperbo, I am not as eloquent (is that how its spelled?) as Scipio, but I have enough “grey matter” to know your not helping matters as a coach when you behave that way. Thank you, Joe for the write up. Taylor- very well put.

6. parlinhall said:

   November 19th, 2009 at 7:03 pm

   I’ve said before that Mangino’s irreversible mistake was to go 12-1 in 2007. If he hadn’t done so–ironically–none of this would have risen to anyone’s notice.

   Mangino has won more games in the last three seasons than 30-odd KU coaches have in their entire careers. It’s funny, therefore, that KU is about to go the Mackovic/Callahan/Sherman route and wind up back in the cellar after spending shitloads of donor and university cash.

   It’s my sense that an ideal outcome would start with a come-to-Jesus meeting, leading eventually to (a) lapband surgery; (b) public as well as private apologies from Mangino; and (c) an administrative declaration that second acts do exist in American life.

   This last outcome would be the most dangerous to KU’s opponents. The Arbuckle two-reeler they’re starting can only benefit others.

7. Scipio Tex said:

   November 19th, 2009 at 7:08 pm

   czar -

   Nice post. I’m with you. You nail what coaching and development are all about. Clearly Mack cares a lot about his players beyond what they can do for him on the field. We have had one or two abusive position coaches here, but they didn’t stick around too long under Mack’s regime and they were definitely viewed as not part of the culture.

   Charlie –

   Couldn’t agree more. It’s crucial to focus on a player’s behaviors, not their circumstances.

   Doperbo only has a 160 IQ though.

8. srr50 said:

   November 19th, 2009 at 7:08 pm

   The fundamental issue is based on values that haven’t changed in a long time: respect, common decency, integrity, and caring. That’s where Mangino failed.

   Very true, and we have gone through this ourselves. Mangino, a football coach at a basketball school eventually will be done in because he did not have these fundamental values.

   Bob Weltlich, a basketball coach at a football school failed for the same reasons.

   Weltlich, like Mangino had a pedegree (childhood friend of Bobby Knight, had turned Mississippi, the worst program in the SEC competitive,) when he was hired to replace Abe Lemons.

   Weltlich had a good basketball mind, and he performed, on one level, exactly as Texas wished. He recruited decent players, who were decent people.

   Guys Like Dennis Perryman, Patrick Fairs, Karl Wllock, and Raynard Davis came on board, in his early years and they were good enough to make Texas competitive in the SWC and were never going to cause problems off the court.

   But of course bringing in quality people wasn’t enough. Weltlich had to break them down in demeaning fashion, making damn sure that every knew who was in charge and what kind of power he held over them. Like Mangino he would sieze upon any perceived weakness and rip the player (or asst. or UT staffer) apart.

   During the 1985-86 season Texas played at #8 Oklahoma. The night before the contest, during shoot around, Sooner Coach Billy Tubbs comes down from his office to talk to Weltlich. He says, “Damn Bob, you actually have some players.

   The next day Texas With John Browlee, Karl Willock and Patrick Fairs leading the way pushed OU to the limit before losing 93-92 in overtime in what was as exciting and competitive game as Texas had played in years. Those OU teams were intimidating, but Texas didn’t back down.

   Weltlich’s reaction to the inspired effort was to scream profanities at the players for about ten minutes in the lockerroom after the contest.

   As I said he had quality kids, and got quality players. Travis Mays is a great example, and when Weltlich lost Mays, he lost the team.

   During his last season (1987-88), Texas lost at Tenn.-Chattanooga by 71-70 right before Christmas. Weltlich was so pissed that he called for a team practice Christmas morning, which meant that the players would not be able to take a couple of days off for the Holidays. When the players arrived at the Erwin Center for practice on Christmas morning there was note canceling the practice.

   That was it. Mays led a contingent of players to the AD and basically said that if Weltlich stayed after that season there would be a mass exodus of players. Even Weltlich felt things were done.

   Then a funny thing happened. Weltlich began to act like a decent human being. He actually treated the players with a little respect, he didn’t verbally abuse them, and generally acted like a basketball coach.

   The team, 7-9 at the time, reacted by winning 9 out of their next 11 games. At that point, Weltlich, who had Lance Blanks and Joey Wright redshirting that season, apparently decided that the winning streak had saved his job, so he went back to being a prick the last week of the season.

   The team went to the SWC post-season tournament, and stunk up Reunion Arena in a first round loss to Houston. Weltlich was canned and I have always suspected that the players looked at the situation and decided that giving their best effor for Weltlch was against their best interests in the post-season tournament.

   Maybe Kansas will find a “transitional” coach like Texas did in Tom Penders, to help keep the program moving ahead.

   Maybe not.

   But I don’t doubt for a minute that the Mangino era will end badly.

9. MidTexHorn said:

   November 19th, 2009 at 7:29 pm

   srr50-
   Wow. Never heard that story about Weltlich. I first became a UT hoops fan during the Weltlich era – apparently I have a masochistic streak. I was a kid then, so I didn’t follow any off the court happenings and have never heard this story about how it all came to an end.

10. Hiphopopotamus said:

    November 19th, 2009 at 7:45 pm

    Really good stuff, Scipio. Taylor already hit your high point, so I won’t bother to do it again – just had to comment on a job well done.

11. NY Horn said:

    November 19th, 2009 at 7:47 pm

    I think an interesting question is if Mangino is so shitty at fostering healthy coach/player relationships, and everyone hated his guts and hated playing for him, why has he been so successful within the context of that program? Isn’t he the most successful Kansas football coach ever? Was he so much better at other aspects of being a coach that it didn’t matter or is all of this overblown in an effort to get the guy sacked without having to pay his buyout?

12. Groundhogday said:

    November 19th, 2009 at 7:55 pm

    Scipio,

    Who were the position coaches who didn’t last long at Texas? The one I can think of is Everitt Withers who is the DC at UNC under Butch Davis after coaching in the pros.

    That’s a fascinating story about Weltlich.

    There’s a big difference between Mangino and Knight. Just listen to Knight’s former players talk about him. He would yell and scream but at the end of the day he graduated 90 percent of his players. The Landon Turner story will bring a tear to your eye when you hear what Knight did for him after his accident.

13. Golden Gopher said:

    November 19th, 2009 at 8:08 pm

    Guess again

14. Groundhogday said:

    November 19th, 2009 at 8:26 pm

    I have a tough time believing the current gopher was run out of town as he was largely responsible for getting VY to campus and there is a little gopher on the UT roster. Add to that the fact that he was with Brown at UNC. Is he in trouble in his current job?

15. nordberg said:

    November 19th, 2009 at 8:38 pm

    Haywood?

    Good stuff on Weltlich Srr50. Blanks and Wright were sitting out because they were transfers, right? I wonder what those next couple of teams would have looked like with Weltlich there.

    In a somewhat related matter, I’ve always wanted to get two puppies, and name them Panama and Locksley. I’ve also always wanted to get a yellow lab and a black lab and name them Crockett and Tubbs.

    Dammit, this is why I normally keep my posts to a sentence or two.

16. Groundhogday said:

    November 19th, 2009 at 8:48 pm

    Good call, Nordberg. First off, not a great recruiter and I had older brothers who played athletics against him in high school and he was known as a douche back then as well.

    There is actually a great story about him in high school. He played basketball for St. Thomas in Houston. Not a very good ball player but obviously a great athlete. Anyway, during a JV basketball game between St. Thomas and Strake Jesuit he and some other St. Thomas players were sitting behind some Jesuit players and he spit on one of the Jesuit players. Legend has it that the matter was taken outside during the JV game and Haywood got his ass kicked before having to take the court in a varsity basketball game an hour later.

17. hopefulhorn said:

    November 19th, 2009 at 8:56 pm

    This discussion brings out an apparently crucial aspect of Will Muschamp’s effect on our program. It would be hard to find a more intense or demanding coach. However, these qualities seem to be leavened with a strong bond based on respect and a clear desire to bring out the best in his players. They all seem to love him and kill themselves to please him.

18. Groundhogday said:

    November 19th, 2009 at 9:00 pm

    Speaking of Haywood, he has assembled and interesting staff at Miami of Ohio.

    Carl “Bull” Reese–Defensive Coordinator/Linebackers

    Cedric Cormier–WR Coach

    Lance Guidry–DB coach and father of Janzen Jackson of the famous trio of the Pilot stick up with Red Ryder BB gun at Tennessee.

19. Gene Claude said:

    November 19th, 2009 at 9:06 pm

    It has been elucidating to watch this from Tigernation. Lots of glee, lots of self-reverential patting on the back for Pinkel’s wonderful humanity. How soon we forget the Quin Snyder and Ricky Clemons era.

    I’m as entertained and interested as anyone, but I find the gloating to be distasteful. I don’t wish for the ugly underbelly of human nature to be visited upon 20 year olds, even if they are Jayhawks.

    The line I see here is the personal attacks that have nothing to do with the context of football. Scream at a kid all day about laziness or lack of focus, or missing class, whatever. But non-football personal attacks, especially sharing private information with the team, is just fucking evil. He obviously has a self-destructive streak. And, he wipes his ass with towels, which is just unseemingly.

    He’s done well as a football coach because he is or has employed good talent evaluators and tacticians.

20. srr50 said:

    November 19th, 2009 at 9:10 pm

    Legend has it that the matter was taken outside during the JV game and Haywood got his ass kicked before having to take the court in a varsity basketball game an hour later.

    Of course its true.

    Kicking St. Thomas ass is a birthright for Crusaders.

21. hobbeshorn said:

    November 19th, 2009 at 9:58 pm

    Careful srr, private school smack is dangerous.

22. triplehorn said:

    November 19th, 2009 at 10:25 pm

    Taken in isolation, the brief exchanges told by the former players shock the conscience. In reality people and relationships are more complex.

    I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that there are also some players who can produce similar accounts of exchanges with Mangino that they would characterize as not crossing the line. It’s also a universal occurrence in relationships, especially charged ones, that one person’s reported situational experience of another can be completely opposite from what the other could have imagined, or intended. What distinguishes this is that there is a critical mass of outspoken players unmasking a pattern that caused them emotional harm. This greatly reduces one on one subjectivity of the coach/player interactions and does not bode well for Mangino.

    If I try to put myself in Mangino’s head as to how he might be in complete denial of his inappropriateness or harm caused, I can imagine him rationalizing that by holding up his players’ past deficits, be it family or locale, or personal off the field failings, he is actually highlighting the contrast of the good they have accomplished in being collegiate players at a successful football program. He might believe that he motivates through activating their fear of losing what they have proven in being a KU player, though that meaning may be only implied and largely unspoken. Some players may feel some form of love/hate gratitude and loyalty while others felt overtly harmed by it.

    These kinds of scenarios play out in virtually any scene where power and authority are in play. With great power comes great responsibility. You risk getting blown up by your own when you repeatedly dip into their cauldron to command higher performance. Success at football demands you harness aggression, tolerate pain, and dish it out. There’s a lot of gray area, and context can a role in our responses in ways that might many of us shudder at ourselves.

23. Confused and Dazed said:

    November 19th, 2009 at 10:58 pm

    Well, it’s good to see he’s learned a lesson from this.

24. dick said:

    November 19th, 2009 at 11:00 pm

    “Kicking St. Thomas ass is a birthright for Crusaders.”

    complete opposite besides sports over the past 12 years.

25. quigley said:

    November 19th, 2009 at 11:06 pm

    I’m in the position of learning how to lead right now. An interesting concept that you may be aware of (I wasn’t) was the danger of having supervisor and mentor as the same person. I mentor, ideally, can give good, unbiased advice. The supervisor has his self-interest involved. That interest may or may not correspond to what is best for the person being supervised.

    I’m a Sooner fan. As such, I feel a bit sorry for Mangino, but not much. I work in an industry that tolerates a lot of abusive behavior and have had boss who is considered abusive by the high (low?) standards of this field. I don’t find this interesting at all. Mangino should go, get help, and, if there is evidence that he has changed, only then be entrusted with the management of others.

    I agree that context is important and that children today are sometimes not able to accept purposeful criticism. However, data from management studies in several industries shows that the behavior that Mangino is accused of is not productive. It is actually amazing that he has succeeded to the degree has. Hopefully, he will learn from it.

    The Knight counterpoint is instructive. Knight was known to be abusive to his players, but support them afterward. He is an example of a bad supervisor but good mentor as the mentor-mentee trust was not violated. Mangino is obviously a bad supervisor and bad mentor.

26. Nacho said:

    November 20th, 2009 at 3:06 am

    Scip – you didn’t attend Anderson High in Austin, did you? Our baseball coach at the time followed a very similar path to the one you described.

    Quigley sounds like he might be military

27. TKO said:

    November 20th, 2009 at 6:24 am

    “Our high school baseball coach had a thing for high school girls.”

    Who doesn’t?

28. ransomstoddard said:

    November 20th, 2009 at 6:25 am

    The fact that Mangino would physically and verbally players is not news to the players at ou he used to coach. But you are right: no way is today’s Oprah-ized youth going to put up with that.

29. Bob in Houston said:

    November 20th, 2009 at 7:17 am

    Regarding the second-to-last paragraph, this is why Knight was canned and Mangino will be. Bob had three straight one-and-dones in the NCAAs.

    Now, he’d taken himself down by starting to avoid recruiting and bringing in a lower class of player. But, like Weltlich, who learned at the knee of the master, he abused players such as Neil Reed, who had given his body for the cause. He had made a regular practice of telling seniors-to-be (read: recruiting mistakes) to find another place to play. When he did it to Reed and Jason Collier, that made the camel buckle.

    It would be foolish to think that there aren’t good cops and bad cops all over college football, especially at Texas. I would imagine that Mack Brown probably just tells kids they probably won’t play much and let them decide. But I also get the feeling that he feels an obligation to the guys he recruited not to make himself the reason they want to leave.

30. Coach Wooderson said:

    November 20th, 2009 at 7:50 am

    “Our high school baseball coach had a thing for high school girls.”

    I get older, they stay the same age. Yes they do…

31. H-TownT-sip said:

    November 20th, 2009 at 7:52 am

    Well if he goes, I for one, will be remise. My season tickets are lower level on the visitor sidelines and the Kansas home game with Mangino on the sideline was always me and my buddies favorite. I will miss the hour long debates wondering if he could wipe his own ass. The discussions on what and how much food we would have to eat at each meal to be that large (I believe we all agreed that a quadruple quadruple from Whataburger was in play), and of course debating the over/under of when the last time he saw his own dick, sans mirror, was. I guess we will have to enjoy it while we can this Saturday, but I’m gonna miss that big ol’ son of a bitch.

32. Gene Claude said:

    November 20th, 2009 at 8:03 am

    TKO:

    Todd Reesing.

33. EDSBS » Archive » CURIOUS INDEX, 11/20/09 said:

    November 20th, 2009 at 8:09 am

    [...] it’s merely a matter of time for Mangino’s departure, while Scipio Tex reminds you that “winning is always a sweet cologne on the nastiest funk. Or, in short: he’s fired unless they beat Texas this weekend, and then we’ll think [...]

34. Texoz said:

    November 20th, 2009 at 9:05 am

    Found this video clip of Mangino (aka Mr. Creosote) exploding with anger. fyi, not office safe.
    .
    

35. coloradoag said:

    November 20th, 2009 at 9:22 am

    Outstanding piece and one that I think any man who competed in team sports above the junior high level can identify with. Context is certainly everything. Many of Bob Knight’s actions from the glory days at IU would leave him fired and blackballed from most positions in modern day athletics. However, a contextual look shows that Knight graduated nearly all his players and grew them as men – often keeping strong ties to them long after their days as Hoosiers.

    I played for some real assholes. At the end of the day, if the verbally and physically abusive asshole had the ability to show loyalty and support (even if it was feigned) then the young men would break their backs for him and be grateful. In contrast, if the dick showed any selfish, traitor characteristics and lost the trust of even one player, the ship was sunk.

    I happen to like intense coaches. To date, I think Muschamp is a great example of a coach who demands excellence, is as intense as they come, and yet garners the full trust and heart from his players. I’d rather play for a guy like that than a slimy, turtlenecked Rick Neuheisel covering Hall and Oates on his Fender in the locker room.

    And, uh, yeah… Mangino is done. Hopefully his health insurance benefits are being discussed in the buyout or that Obama thing comes to pass.

36. JUICE said:

    November 20th, 2009 at 9:24 am

    God bless Bob Weltlich for causing fans to desert in such numbers that my season tickets moved from the mezzanine to the arena.

37. Vasherized said:

    November 20th, 2009 at 9:59 am

    Piling the tinder of the soccer trophy self-esteem movement on the bonfire of cocky 20 year old males who were the biggest deal to ever come out of Topeka or Arlington isn’t always fun to flick the match of hard truths around, but that’s not the fundamental issue.

    You just had to work in a bonfire reference. On the TEN YEAR ANNIVERSARY!

    Great post.

    Mangino is a big, slow unrepentant target and should get taken down quickly by the pack of circling wolves.

    The themes you touched on also explain why Stoops feels direct heat whenever shit starts to go south in Norman. His visor prick persona is easy to forgive when they’re winning. Pile up a few losses, especially in big games, and the increased pressure only magnifies what an asshole he really is. That’s why I can’t fathom his mass appeal as a coach. Yes, winning is all that matters, but when the coach is the face of your program and he’s a total asshole, the two blend together into one image. And that massive excavation where his chin should be makes a good bullseye.

38. Phenomenal Smith said:

    November 20th, 2009 at 10:23 am

    It has been elucidating to watch this from Tigernation. Lots of glee, lots of self-reverential patting on the back for Pinkel’s wonderful humanity. How soon we forget the Quin Snyder and Ricky Clemons era.

    I haven’t seen any Mizzou gloating, but then I don’t visit any Missouri message boards or listen to sports radio (aside from the occasional coaches show). I dislike people generally, and ironically given my role on a sports blog, I dislike the average fan especially.

    I recall the glee of KU fans calling into radio shows (about the time I realized my life would be better without sports radio) re Ricky Clemons so there’s a part of me glad that these fans now get to experience the shame of such an incident. It’s all about comeuppance and my own pettiness. Yeah, I share some qualities with those I dislike – it’s not easy being me.

39. Scipio Tex said:

    November 20th, 2009 at 10:30 am

    Vasherized:

    I’m actually surprised Mangino’s quote saying that he operates within the standards of what he has observed at other programs isn’t getting more play.

    As for OU, I remember an OU player being quoted a couple of years back something along the lines of “This is a place that isn’t a lot of fun if you’re not winning” and the context was suggestive that he was speaking beyond just the pressures of playing in a Top 10 college football program.

40. dasmithjones said:

    November 20th, 2009 at 10:38 am

    Damn. At the risk of sounding like a sycophant, I knew you were good Scip, but Dayum.

41. Doperbo said:

    November 20th, 2009 at 10:48 am

    I take these for granted, but that was cogent and well said, reminds me of the Ali piece (False Icons in Sport).

    Oh, and Charlie is my new favorite poster.

42. CloseToJumping said:

    November 20th, 2009 at 11:09 am

    I believe Scipio was referencing Tim Nunez. He wanted that guy out with a passion, mostly because Nunez pushed his OL to the limits to achieve maximum results in performance.

43. Vasherized said:

    November 20th, 2009 at 11:23 am

    Nunez taught Jason Glynn how to roller skate backwards. That’s not easy.

44. Scipio Tex said:

    November 20th, 2009 at 11:35 am

    You are very funny, ctj.

    srr50 -

    Loved the Weltlich remembrance. That was a dark time in UT basketball.

    Wasn’t he famous for making his players do duck walks as punishment for all sorts of real and perceived infractions? To the point of injury, if I recall.

45. srr50 said:

    November 20th, 2009 at 11:58 am

    Ah yes the duck walk. That indeed was a favorite tactic.

    We like to pretend our morality is hard and fast. In truth, for most, it’s a flexible calculus of pain/pleasure and risk/reward which is then used ex post facto like a Stretch Armstrong figure to rationalize your behavior.

    Situational ethics.

    When a HS football coach got into a extra benefits-transfer jam earlier this year in Oklahoma I broached the subject on another board and you would have thought I had accused him of being a cross-dressing soccer coach.

    Scip, thanks for the thought-provoking musings, stuff like this makes the internet almost worthwhile.

46. eskimohorn said:

    November 20th, 2009 at 2:16 pm

    Among many, many strengths of Mack Brown, is the unconditional support he gives to players in their drive to turn pro. He even invited Romance to pro day. There are many coaches, like Mangino allegedly, who use their influence to scare players that they’ll provide negative feedback to scouts. Other tactics include hiding players from scouts (not playing them when scouts are in town – applies to baseball mostly) or overplaying them when they have injuries.

    As a big picture guy, Mack makes sure to support his players in their efforts to turn pro. The more Texas Exes in the pros, the better for Texas.

47. Scipio Tex said:

    November 20th, 2009 at 2:26 pm

    Heidi Fleiss tried to turn Romance pro.

    eskimo, agree on all you wrote.

48. Little Bridie said:

    November 20th, 2009 at 3:55 pm

    First of all let me say that I am sorry I can’t offer something more mentally stimulating to add to the discussion than what I am about to type. In response to what Gene Claud said bout the towel wiping. I have heard from someone who has supposedly caught Mangino in the act of wiping his ass with a towel. This is one of the funniest things I have ever heard. Is it urban legend or does anyone have proof. The source I heard it from it pretty reliable.

49. raoulduke said:

    November 20th, 2009 at 4:05 pm

50. BEHorn said:

    November 20th, 2009 at 5:39 pm

    “I have heard from someone who has supposedly caught Mangino in the act of wiping his ass with a towel.”

    The Implications of That Scenario Make the Source Inherently Unreliable,

    or,

    Who the Hell Would Ever Admit to Being Anyplace Where They Might Even Accidentally See Mangino Wiping His Ass?

51. Art Vandelay said:

    November 20th, 2009 at 7:15 pm

    Scipio,

    Great piece. You are a talented SOB.

    As I sit here finishing a wonderful dinner, and an even better bottle of vino I’ve finally pegged you sir. You are the Lizard King of BC. A Shaman, the Erotic Politician, Mr. Mojo Risin’. OK…. I admit it… I’m watching The Doors on HBO.

    Maybe it’s the wine, but It does seem to fit.

52. Drew Dunlevie said:

    November 20th, 2009 at 7:17 pm

    What wine?

53. Gene Claude said:

    November 20th, 2009 at 7:50 pm

    I expected Mangino to break down during his press conference and blurt out this (directed at the Bill Snyder coaching tree):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-Elr5K2Vuo

54. Go Big Rev said:

    November 22nd, 2009 at 9:38 pm

    One could make an interesting comparison between Mark Mangino and Bo Pelini. Bo caught a lot of flak for his sideline tirades in his first season, and it could be argued that the personal foul penalty he received during the Va Tech game in 2008 was a contributing factor to that loss. He still has a tendency to go nuclear on coaches and players when they miss assignments. During Saturday’s game against Kansas State, he let QB Zac Lee have it after Lee chose to throw (incomplete) on third and short rather than run for a probable first down.

    At the same time, from all appearances most NU players would run through concrete for Coach Pelini. They admit the yelling can be uncomfortable, but we Husker fans get the sense that this coaching staff has their players’ backs, and the players buy into the system and the means by which Pelini and his staff manage it.

    If what is being said about Mangino is true, it’s just sad. There’s no other way to describe it.

55. Barking Carnival — Blog — The Disciplinarians: Pinkel and Mangino said:

    November 24th, 2009 at 8:33 am

    [...] father-figure, he was being a petty tyrant. (Scipio brilliantly analyzes this distinction here and here). I am not here to condone these alleged actions. Still, you know what, if you take the top five [...]

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