Basketball Articles
Part II of the Obese Hoops Preview: Why Texas Will Cut Down the Nets
Posted by The General on November 10th, 2009 under Basketball
For all of the sunshine pumping regarding our potential offensive prowess, there will still be incredibly frustrating runs for this team. Even with all of the offensive fire power that arrived on the campus this summer, I expect offense to remain the weak link on the team. Rick Barnes is a defensive guy, and I expect the lion’s share of the practice minutes to be utilized on this side of the basketball. Let’s take a look at the strengths of this year’s team.
Areas Rick Barnes’ Texas Teams Excel
Defense
Coach Barnes demands a very high standard of excellence on defense. He prefers a pressure man to man. Texas has only gone to zone when we had to (Daniel Gibson’s freshman year, the DJ years, and to protect Dexter Pittman) and will occasionally throw in a 1-2-1-1 or some variation in the full court, mainly to disrupt the rhythm of the opposing team and steal about 5 seconds of shot clock. Barnes will also deploy full court man pressure on occasion, especially in late game deficit scenarios, but since it is merely an extension of his half court man to a larger area, I will not concentrate on the full court.
Unfortunately, we will see the 2-3 zone deployed this year in an effort to take pressure off of Dexter in the middle and protect him from foul trouble. I say unfortunately because Texas is not a very good 2-3 team. On the face of it, the 2-3 zone would seem to be the easiest of all defenses to run, and that is true schematically. The problem is that it is easy to be a mediocre 2-3 team, and very difficult to be an excellent one. Obviously, Jim Boeheim’s Syracuse teams are the gold standard when it comes to the 2-3 defense. I think we all can remember that it absolutely flummoxed Texas in the 2003 Final Four.
To be honest, expecting Texas to play the 2-3 to the standard that Syracuse does is ludicrous. The Orange’s matchup zone is their base defense and Jimmy Boeheim’s is riding it into the Hall of Fame. With elite length, it is an absolutely devastating defense (and Texas has the length). But, In the 2-3, Texas is not nearly aggressive enough nor do they understand the rotations to the center of the court (the soft spot in the zone) well enough to make this anything but a stopgap to hide the big fella. Texas has the length to bother the shooters of weaker teams that can’t attack us methodically. So, we will see some success against weaker competition, but the 2-3 isn’t going to help us against UNC, Kansas, or any well coached team with a couple of the right pieces.
I can run the 2-3 better than you!
The other infuriating aspect about our 2-3 zone is its passive nature bleeds into our team at the offensive end. This is liable to happen when you don’t run an offense. Texas relies on feeding off the energy created by our defense to fuel our offense. Our 2-3 creates passive inertia that hurts us on the other end.
On defense, our particular strength is ball pressure. Our best defensive teams have had a shutdown on the ball defender like Royal Ivey (or the unlikely Willie Clay) that takes the other teams best guard and shuts him down like Mangino at an all you can eat fried chicken buffet. We rarely have more than one or two of these guys on a single team. Barnes has four this year. Just the thought of Justin Mason, Dogus Balbay, Varez Ward, and Avery Bradley made Sherron Collins purge like Lindsey Lohan before the Seventeen Kid’s Choice Awards. I long to see Barnes deploy these guys in waves to the immense frustration of Teniente Denis Clemente, Ginyard and Drew, and hopefully Kalin Lucas.
The Ultimate Barnes Guy
If there are nits to be picked, Barnes man defense is guilty of a couple of weaknesses. One, our backside rotations tend to be a step slow when our frontline pressure is defeated, though Justin Mason covers down to the post well enough to make Larry Brown cream his Sansabelts. Also, we occasionally bail out fantastic man pressure by not utilizing a full deny one pass away. The full deny can get you backdoored like Christy Turlington, but it makes sense to sell out there if you are going to sell out pressuring the ball.
There, my nits have been picked.
Rebounding
Coach Barnes employs the same high standard for pressure on the ball for team rebounding. If you have had a seat within earshot of the Rick at the Drum in the last couple of years, you have heard his profanity laced tirades that would make Andrew Dice Clay blush spewed at Connor Atchley’s block out position. Again, this year could be Rick’s best rebounding team. He has one truly elite out of area rebounder in Damion James and one potentially elite out of area rebounder in Lexi Wangmene. I hope that Wangmene achieves enough notoriety to have a porn star use Lexi Wang Many as a stage name some day. We all have dreams.
Really?
Dexter Pittman is a man mountain that should clear the lane for his own rebounds and others to clean up his work. Gary Johnson is a max effort pit bull that may not be elite, but rarely gives up position to his man. Texas also has excellent rebounding guards in Justin Mason, Dogus Balbay, and Avery Bradley. Jordan Hamilton and Shawn Williams on the wing are also excellent rebounders.
In short, between defense and rebounding, the opposing team will have to value its possessions very highly to not get run out of the gym.
What Makes Rick Barnes and Elite Coach
Effort
There is only one area (I am not including recruiting in this preview) where Rick Barnes is a truly elite coach. And by elite, I mean that he does this better than every single coach in the country. Coach Barnes gets kids to buy in and give more effort than the players they play against. This is an extraordinary advantage, and one that is much more important than his defensive prowess or his offensive shortcomings specifically for this years team. Coach gets max effort, and not in a Jerry Schmidt eat your own vomit kind of way. Barnes gets players to buy in so totally that they don’t want to leave even when they have to (example: TJ Ford).
There is a reason Kevin Durant comes back to Austin to sleep on Justin Mason’s floor and ball with the young guys in the summer. There is a reason TJ Ford had to be forced in tears to enter the draft even though he had a career threatening spinal condition that made his earning potential a bundle of C4 attached to a cheap mechanical alarm clock. There is a reason Royal Ivey spends his summers here and Justin Mason teaches the guys that are going to take his job the ropes and J’Covan Brown fights his high school coach and the massive sinkhole that is PA to get into Texas.
The reason is Rick Barnes.
Rick Effing Barnes
Since the word that J’Covan Brown cleared the bureaucratic fascists at the J’Clearinghouse, my biggest worry was how Coach Barnes would divvy out minutes well enough to keep free agents playing for a contract (Damion James and Dexter Pittman), the ESPNU 100’s #1 player Avery Bradley, the classic one and done wing Jordan Hamilton, Florida transfer Jai Lucas, the emerging Varez Ward, the I’ll go professional in Europe again Dogus Balbay, the bled for the program and I have 101 starts Justin Mason, and the junkyard dog Gary Johnson, happy with only 200 minutes per basketball game. On most teams, like Kansas and Kentucky, this would be an enormous problem. Most teams don’t have Rick Barnes.
Sometime about two weeks ago, in between reading articles about Durant’s summer in Austin, Justin Mason’s new role as player coach for the young guards, and Avery Bradley evidently being the most humble world class shooting guard in the history of man, it occurred to me that Barnes will be able to handle this just fine.
Kevin Durant is probably our best example of what buying in to the program means. KD played one year of college basketball because the NBA Player’s Association bargained away his right to be a lottery pick coming out of high school. He has already given the program more than it can repay in prestige and recruiting rewards. Yet, he couches it with one of his old classmates, goes to class, and dazzles the guys in open gyms. He has a shoe contract that is bigger than the defense budget of most third world countries, and he chooses to spend his very sparse down time at Texas or on the sidelines at football games. If a once in a generation scorer like Durant buys in, then what is Jordan Hamilton going to do when Barnes tears him a new asshole for giving up the baseline?
Walk?
I don’t think so. Pout? Maybe, but since everyone on this team is replaceable, that won’t get him very far. I just used Hamilton as an example. If he is the Paul Pierce clone that he has been billed as, then fierce competitiveness will take over and we won’t be able to keep him off the court.
Barnes’ magnetism and the competition for minutes on a team that can go 14 deep will keep guys fighting for playing time. Survival of the fittest is a damned fine concept when you have a bench full of guys that can all get it done.
Effort is the reason I take Texas to win it all this year over the extremely talented and well coached Kansas Jayhawks, the E! True Hollywood Story Kentucky Wildcats, and the junkyard dog Michigan State Spartans. I think Barnes gets more out of his guys than anyone else, and this year he has a team as talented or more talented than anyone else in the country.
Part III The Opponents to arrive before tip off. Hopefully.
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Sailor Ripley commented on the blog post March Madness Brackets Rackets: Can Las Vegas Pick The Champion? 7 hours, 10 minutes ago
Those Syracuse odds are very interesting. Dude’s halt.
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Ibas water bottle wrote a new blog post: Mike Holder is an evil genius 7 hours, 20 minutes ago
If economist ever needed extra evidence to prove inelastic demand, I’d point them to our athletic programs. When I saw this slide show from CNBC I can’t say I was shocked. We finished the year as the 12th most profitable basketball program in the NCAA tournament and third in the Big 12 behind KU and
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Sailor Ripley commented on the blog post As if we didn’t already like Traylon Shead enough… 7 hours, 35 minutes ago
Big Dave swinging the Grammar Hammer!
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Sailor Ripley commented on the blog post All Signs Point to March Madness Expanding to 96 Teams 7 hours, 38 minutes ago
Steve –
Could you write a bit about the NCAA’s origins and how they evolved into a hugefuckingmongous commercial operation.
Do they have a P&L anyone can review?
I think non-profits generally get fucked up due to absence of the profit motive but for these guys to wield their power (or not) in
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admin commented on the blog post All Signs Point to March Madness Expanding to 96 Teams 7 hours, 38 minutes ago
Steve –
Could you write a bit about the NCAA’s origins and how they evolved into a hugefuckingmongous commercial operation.
Do they have a P&L anyone can review?
I think non-profits generally get fucked up due to absence of the profit motive but for these guys to wield their power (or not) in
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admin commented on the blog post All Signs Point to March Madness Expanding to 96 Teams 7 hours, 38 minutes ago
Steve –
Could you write a bit about the NCAA’s origins and how they evolved into a hugefuckingmongous commercial operation.
Do they have a P&L anyone can review?
I think non-profits generally get fucked up due to absence of the profit motive but for these guys to wield their power (or not) in
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Sailor Ripley commented on the blog post Things To Do While Not Watching OU in the NCAA Tourney 7 hours, 43 minutes ago
Watch the tournament. Hell, we’re shite but I’m still fired up for this weekend.
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admin commented on the blog post Play A Real Spring Game 7 hours, 47 minutes ago
The chance to “play” some real teams you might not see otherwise would be very cool. Bit TV and ticket sales…
I guess the issues are injuries, wanting to work out lots of guys (inter-squad would be cutting their reps in half), and losing to face by getting skunked by somebody.
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Sailor Ripley commented on the blog post Play A Real Spring Game 7 hours, 47 minutes ago
The chance to “play” some real teams you might not see otherwise would be very cool. Bit TV and ticket sales…
I guess the issues are injuries, wanting to work out lots of guys (cutting their reps in half, and losing to face by getting skunked by somebody.
SHARETHIS.addEntry({ title: ””, url: ”” });
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whiskey wrote a new blog post: Play A Real Spring Game 8 hours, 3 minutes ago
I have been sitting here for the last few weeks looking forward to spring football in South Bend. With the regime change there should be plenty to talk about over the next few weeks as we get a first look at how Brian Kelly will run things.
I am certain that I will watch even
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Kevin Berger commented on the blog post All Signs Point to March Madness Expanding to 96 Teams 8 hours, 12 minutes ago
The unintended consequence of expansion is all the coaches that would be fired for failing to make the dance.
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Kevin Berger wrote a new blog post: March Madness Brackets Rackets: Can Las Vegas Pick The Champion? 8 hours, 27 minutes ago
Capitalism is the ultimate arbiter of truth.
Want to see what people think of you or your product? Follow the money.
Want to figure out which teams in the Big Dance really have a shot to win it all? Glean some information from the folks that make predictions for a living.
Here are
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Sailor Ripley commented on the blog post Why Wildcat fans should be supporting the Gators on Thursday 8 hours, 27 minutes ago
Awesome stuff. Really looking forward to seeing how you and the Baylor guys do. Big expectations, small pedigrees. Rooting for our Big 12 brethren.
And I have always felt the Olive Gardeb bottomless bowl of salad and bread sticks were very underrated fro a college student.
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admin commented on the blog post Why Wildcat fans should be supporting the Gators on Thursday 8 hours, 27 minutes ago
Awesome stuff. Really looking forward to seeing how you and the Baylor guys do. Big expectations, small pedigrees. Rooting for our Big 12 brethren.
And I have always felt the Olive Garden bottomless bowl of salad and bread sticks were very underrated for a college student.
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Sailor Ripley commented on the blog post New Recruiting Feature on March to March: Weekly Whispers 9 hours, 19 minutes ago
Cool. Whither Cory Joseph?
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Luke wrote a new blog post: Why Wildcat fans should be supporting the Gators on Thursday 9 hours, 53 minutes ago
I am still afraid of Syracuse and that zone, but that’s still just a potential matchup that seems a long way away.
We’ll have to deal with three days between games next week, so there will be plenty of time to analyze that matchup if both teams are still alive next week. For now, let’s focus
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Kevin Berger wrote a new blog post: New Recruiting Feature on March to March: Weekly Whispers 9 hours, 56 minutes ago
March to March is excited to announce the addition of a new weekly feature called Weekly Whispers from a source with intimate knowledge of the college basketball recruiting landscape and specifically the AAU circuit. The information will be nationwide and not school specific.
In an effort to maintain anonymity, our source will go
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jc25 commented on the blog post Bracket Anaylysis: Monsters of the Midwest 10 hours, 1 minute ago
Good write-up. I almost had this one going chalk but went the following directions:
1. San Diego St over Tennessee. Granted, I’ve never seen SDSU play, but from what I hear, they’re pretty well coached and always manage to sneak into the tourney. Tennessee, without Tyler Smith, is simply not that talented. Oh sure, they can
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SizzleChest commented on the blog post Beat the Barkers NCAA Tourney Bracket 10 hours, 29 minutes ago
Did someone say table dance?
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dick commented on the blog post Beat the Barkers NCAA Tourney Bracket 10 hours, 29 minutes ago
Utah St is decent, ags had one impressive win at 10 seed Mizzou this year. That being said, Ags will cover that.
You can win a 2011 Infiniti M if your bracket is the best one in the galaxy. My BC tote bag would look sharp in that car.
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Scipio Tex commented on the blog post All Signs Point to March Madness Expanding to 96 Teams 10 hours, 58 minutes ago
Horrendous idea.
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RRR wrote a new blog post: NIT Preview – Seton Hall 11 hours, 1 minute ago
Sorry for the hiatus. It started with disgust as I watched us mail in the conference finale in Boulder. I didn’t have anything to say about that game. Then work got in the way and I missed the redemption game in the first round of the conference tournament. The Kansas game, too. I’m a rotten fan.
But
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dick commented on the blog post All Signs Point to March Madness Expanding to 96 Teams 11 hours, 1 minute ago
Our goal for next year will be to make it to the 2nd round of the tournament.
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Texoz commented on the blog post All Signs Point to March Madness Expanding to 96 Teams 11 hours, 19 minutes ago
Why stop at 96? Let’s bump it up to 192.
Bigger is not always better, says the midget hooker.
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Art Vandelay commented on the blog post As if we didn’t already like Traylon Shead enough… 11 hours, 19 minutes ago
Traylon turns to Rick and says, Texas
Rick says what?
Traylon says, Texas
Rick says what?Perry says “I’ve got to get out of here”
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admin commented on the blog post All Signs Point to March Madness Expanding to 96 Teams 11 hours, 24 minutes ago
When asked to comment, Rick Barnes said “Phew”.
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Sailor Ripley commented on the blog post All Signs Point to March Madness Expanding to 96 Teams 11 hours, 24 minutes ago
When asked for to comment, Rick Barnes said “Phew”.
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dick commented on the blog post All Signs Point to March Madness Expanding to 96 Teams 11 hours, 24 minutes ago
i hate this idea
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srr50 wrote a new blog post: All Signs Point to March Madness Expanding to 96 Teams 11 hours, 52 minutes ago
Perhaps as soon as next year. The NCAA has an “opt out” clause in its $6 Billion contract with CBS this summer and they have already asked for a Request For Proposal from any and all networks interested.
The current contract with CBS is backloaded — the network owes the NCAA $2.3 Billion over the next
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Patrick Bateman commented on the blog post Bush Paves the Way for Henderson? 11 hours, 53 minutes ago
Big Booty Ho’s!
BigDuke,
You, as usual, are correct about the ACT score. However, that he decided to continue with his commitment to USC this late in the process and this close to an anticipated NCAA ruling is probably the bigger story. He had an out and still decided on USC. Just wondering aloud
bighornfan32 said:
November 10th, 2009 at 8:33 pm
exciting read. This year will be approximately 9-10 times more fun to watch then last year.
SkyMonkeyHorn said:
November 10th, 2009 at 8:43 pm
Bravo !! Excellent article ,a little homey but very good. You must be listening when Trips burps out his articles and swings around on his frigging stripper pole. Standing ovation bravo. See you in Indy.
Mack said:
November 10th, 2009 at 9:46 pm
Nice work! Great humor. Well thought-out.
“Mangino at the buffet….” hahahaha
EggNog said:
November 10th, 2009 at 10:13 pm
Last year, a lot of the complaints about Barnes centered around him being too tough on the guys and not having a player/coach guy to be the interface to the team and keep them loose. From what I have been reading, this years’ team has quite a few jokesters who keep the mood light in spite of the competitive nature that Barnes breeds. I really don’t see us having a problem with guys pouting about playing time, which was my biggest concern heading into this season. These articles I have been reading give me that same relief as you.
Vasherized said:
November 10th, 2009 at 10:48 pm
Even if it took you the entire goddamn summer and fall to write this series, you should be proud of the results.
Shawn Williams is starting to come on, which is at once a good and a bad thing.
ipowers said:
November 10th, 2009 at 10:53 pm
From Orangebloods:
Hoops: Longhorns get final dress rehearsal with Gonzaga
One week after scrimmaging Davidson in Austin, the Longhorns hoopsters headed to Denver for a closed scrimmage Saturday against Gonzaga at the Denver Nuggets’ practice facility at the Pepsi Center.
Here are a few nuggets from the scrimmage as the Longhorns prepare for their season opener Sunday at 1 p.m. at the Erwin Center against UC-Irvine.
–Texas won the scrimmage, according to the source I talked to. It was an impressive showing for some (J’Covan Brown, Shawn Williams and Avery Bradley) and a wake-up call for some others (Dexter Pittman and Gary Johnson).
–Dex, who has battled through an ankle sprain recently, got all he wanted from Gonzaga 7-footer Robert Sacre. Sacre was more physical than Dex and threw some forearms into Pittman’s chest (and even tripped Varez Ward on a screen). Sacre was a good wakeup call for Dex that he’s going to occasionally run into someone as big and strong as he is.
–J’Covan Brown is making a strong, strong push for minutes at point guard and showed some good stuff against Gonzaga. Even though he’s still got a lot to learn on the defensive end, he really sees the floor well, plays with a veteran’s pace and can score. If UT wants to get the most out of Pittman, Rick Barnes is going to have to surround Pittman with shooters. J’Covan can shoot it.
–Dogus Balbay got some work against Gonzaga, and the starting job at point for Sunday is down to three players: Varez Ward, Balbay and J’Covan. One source said Barnes could change his mind “five times between now and then.” It’s a good battle.
–Another player really making a solid impression is freshman wing Shawn Williams. One person I talked to said Williams is probably being overrated as a shooter and being underrated as an all-around basketball player who does little things like move without the ball, play help-side defense and make the extra pass. Watch out for Williams.
–Damion James is doing exactly what Barnes wants from a rebounding standpoint. James is truly gifted in that he will rebound “out of his area” and just go get the ball. It’s a lesson that Gary Johnson and Dexter Pittman are still learning. Coaches want Johnson and Pittman to “go get” more rebounds this season.
–Lexi Wangmene has really bought into his role as a physical post presence who will set screen after screen, play physical post defense, block shots and go get rebounds. From this standpoint, he may have a more clearly defined role than Clint Chapman and Matt Hill. Wangmene isn’t really even concerned with offense. He’s all about defense and rebounding.
–Chapman can play inside and outside, but he and Gary Johnson need to focus less on offense and more on defense at this point. Chapman is behind Wangmene at this point.
–Matt Hill may also be a little ahead of Chapman simply because Hill, too, is so focused on defense and rebounding, while Chapman is a little more offensive minded. And let’s be honest, most of the offense on this team is going to come from the perimeter and wing positions or from the center (Pittman). So the team’s other big men need to be very careful about thinking offense first (Johnson, Chapman).
–One source inside the team said, “We forgot just how physical of a presence Lexi can be. It’s nice to have him back (after his knee injury last season).”
–The best and most consistent players in camp so far have been Avery Bradley, Damion James and Varez Ward.
–What impresses the coaches most about Avery Bradley is how much he wants to be coached. He’s constantly asking questions to make sure he gets things right. Even after getting a butt chewing from Barnes in practice, Bradley will thank his coach for ripping him. On more than one occasion this “thank you sir may I have another” mentality from Bradley has completely disarmed Barnes and made him laugh.
–Barnes continues to be really happy with the leadership of Dexter Pittman, Damion James and Justin Mason. Practices are heated. Players are going at each other. But those guys continue to lead.
–J’Covan and Jordan Hamilton, maybe the two best offensive players of the freshmen class, showed some good stuff against Gonzaga one second and then had defensive lapses the next. “They are both learning just how consistently hard they have to work,” one insider said..
Tell Trips to redshirt this
The General said:
November 11th, 2009 at 4:44 am
Gerry Hamilton is saying J’Covan gets the start at point guard. Jordan Hamilton is coming on, but won’t crack the starting lineup before Sunday. It’ll be Brown, Bradley, Ward, James and Pittman.
nordberg said:
November 11th, 2009 at 7:35 am
I can’t believe we’re going with a three-guard lineup with Hamilton on the team. Expect that to change soon.
“This year will be approximately 9-10 times more fun to watch then last year”
Dipping my junk in scolding hot candle wax would be more fun than watching last year’s team.
snowman said:
November 11th, 2009 at 7:55 am
I’m very worried about interior D.
I love the brown, bradley, ward, james, pittman lineup. Still find it hard to believe brown actually starts the first game though; surely they given mason the start.
overly concerned said:
November 11th, 2009 at 8:01 am
Should I be concerned that this “final four team” beat an unranked Gonzaga team by three points?
uthookem said:
November 11th, 2009 at 8:02 am
At least you wouldn’t have had to use much wax, nordberg.
I am excited about basketball.
The General said:
November 11th, 2009 at 8:10 am
oc,
Gonzaga was a scrimmage. They played three halves. Damion James played very few minutes. It does not matter. I wouldn’t care if we lost by 10.
snowman said:
November 11th, 2009 at 8:16 am
General, you’re not a little worried that Pittman got completely worked over by Gonzaga’s bigs? His whole offseason focus was supposed to be defense (where he’s been a huge liability), and the first sign we get is that he didn’t play well. Not suggesting this is indicative of his whole season or anything (maybe his ankle was an issue, maybe he half-assed it, who knows), but it’s not the best piece of news.
nordberg said:
November 11th, 2009 at 8:27 am
I don’t think we can really worry about a scrimmage that we won that none of us saw.
Lo Primero said:
November 11th, 2009 at 8:39 am
“Should I be concerned that this “final four team” beat an unranked Gonzaga team by three points?”
In preseason, you should only be concerned with injuries.
After preseason but before conference time, you should only be concerned if you don’t see improvement. That’s overall improvement, not linear game-to-game improvement. I fully expect ‘2 steps forward, one step back’ for a while.
This team will be good. Just enjoy.
goosehorn said:
November 11th, 2009 at 8:40 am
Dude this is rad. Thanks for the read.
snowman said:
November 11th, 2009 at 8:41 am
but ut sports and recruiting rumors are a fairly significant and integral part of my life…
Bob in Houston said:
November 11th, 2009 at 9:23 am
I’m not gonna be concerned about anything until about February.
The General said:
November 11th, 2009 at 10:08 am
My lack of concern for Dexter’s defense goes like this. He is not a great team defender because he lacks judgement on when to contest and when not to, but he got better as the season progressed last year as he gets minutes. That progress will continue.
Dexter is an underrated man to man post defender against other big guys. I will address this a bit in the next post, but where we need him defensively the most, he is pretty damn good.
I also am much less concerned with him getting in early foul trouble because we need to figure out how to deal with it, and, uhh . . we might be a better overall team offensively when he is off the court (A horror that I was not willing to voice in my offensive preview because I don’t want to have to defend it without seeing these guys play).
I am also confident that Coach Barnes will figure it out defensively, so I don’t lose sleep over it.
Las Pistolas said:
November 11th, 2009 at 11:18 am
I spit water on my desk reading:
“then what is Jordan Hamilton going to do when Barnes tears him a new asshole for giving up the baseline?”
texasengr said:
November 11th, 2009 at 11:48 am
Great read.
As agonizing as last year was (the Arkansas game kind of sums it up for me), it was enjoyable to watch a TEAM that played so hard. They just lacked the skill players and your preview gives me real hope that this year will be different. I can’t wait.
hippie said:
November 11th, 2009 at 12:01 pm
I’d giving anything to have been standing there when Bradley disarmed Rick by thanking him for his new asshole. Classic. It seems Bradley is picking up the TJ/KD mantle as the kid all the recruits want to follow.
Leonidas said:
November 11th, 2009 at 1:12 pm
Rick Barnes is a good coach. But if you think he gets MORE effort from his guys than Bill Self, you’re only fooling yourself.
The General said:
November 11th, 2009 at 1:17 pm
I not only think that, I don’t think that it is all that close.
Hiphopopotamus said:
November 11th, 2009 at 1:38 pm
Agreed, and I’d throw about 5 other teams/coaches into that mix pretty easily.
I’ve loved what Barnes has done at Texas, but at no time have I ever viewed them as a max effort team that played exceptional defense and/or got the most out of their guys. Seems like over the last five years or so, KU has scored 80+ on Texas nearly every time they’ve played (two exception that come to mind are the ‘06 and ‘08 losses in Austin). It’s not that they aren’t good and don’t love Barnes and sell out for him, but they just don’t stand out in this way.
The General said:
November 11th, 2009 at 1:48 pm
Kansas has had the more talented team in each of those contests. I would also opine that Bill Self is a stronger offensive and defensive x’s and o’s guy.
So, how do you account for a Texas win if you have more talent and are better coached?
huge said:
November 11th, 2009 at 2:05 pm
snowman, i have some longhorn innuendo i’ll sell you for $10 a month
dick said:
November 11th, 2009 at 2:40 pm
Texas scored a shit load of points at ease against KU during the losses of 06 and 07 and KU fans go on and on about Self’s defensive coaching prowess. So I wouldn’t use head to head results to back Self’s case either.
When Barnes’ teams have had the personnel play to man to man defense, this exemplifies the max effort talked about here. When we have to play zone, nobody can make their teams look like they are putting forth great effort playing zone. Cuse doesn’t, it’s just effective with the right personnel.
snowman said:
November 11th, 2009 at 2:47 pm
do you have a $100 for a whole year option?!?!
Hiphopopotamus said:
November 11th, 2009 at 3:31 pm
General: You really think KU had more talent in 2006? The year we had five new starters compared to you guys with Aldridge, Gibson and Tucker, plus seniors in Buckman and Paulion. I’d say you had us by a sizable margin that year and the fact that we came back and won in Dallas a couple weeks later was all about effort to me.
‘08 – Absolutely. Damion James in particular…think he out-rebounded our whole team in the second half.
Again, I’m not arguing that Barnes doesn’t get a ton of effort out of his guys, just that the effort he gets isn’t leaps and bounds above what several other elite coaches induce.
dick: Fair point, but again, Texas has done that scoring a few times, whereas Kansas has done it nearly every time. And I think we’d all agree that Durant is more of an anomaly than the norm. In fact, I just checked it out…
Over the last 5 years they’ve played eight times:
Kansas has scored 80+ in six games (90+ twice)
Texas has scored 80+ in three games (which accounts for both Durant games and two losses)
Not trying to prove anything with these results – just saying that the claim isn’t backed up when you actually look at what’s gone down.
Bob in Houston said:
November 11th, 2009 at 3:47 pm
AJ Abrams getting a finger on Brandon Rush’s three from the corner… that was effort.
The General said:
November 11th, 2009 at 5:12 pm
We were older in ‘06, but look at those freshman and the rest of the team. That is what 5 guys in The League? Compared to 2 for Texas.
We might have been more experienced, but I don’t know what metric we would use to show we were more talented.
The General said:
November 11th, 2009 at 5:17 pm
I also did not put Barnes in the elite category defensively. There are some things we don’t do that great and we aren’t multiple. Bill Self coaches team defense better than Barnes for one. Y’alls rotations are smooth and fast, though fairly predictable.
But at the college level, excellent man pressure and elite effort is more than good enough.
The General said:
November 11th, 2009 at 5:17 pm
I just noticed you were addressing dick.
Carry on.
Hiphopopotamus said:
November 11th, 2009 at 5:32 pm
We’ve got four from that team in the league (Rush, Wright, Chalmers and Jackson), but really only the three freshman were playing consistently that year.
The General said:
November 11th, 2009 at 5:44 pm
Plus Kaun in Russia making 2.7 mill in Euros and Collins a POY candidate still in college. There was only one rotational player missing from the NC team.
If that is the closest the two teams have come talent wise, then I think I have made my point.
ctex80 said:
November 11th, 2009 at 6:00 pm
This is the first time I’ve ever heard a Kansas fan argue that their team was less talented. Interesting.
uthookem said:
November 11th, 2009 at 6:09 pm
“This is the first time I’ve ever heard a Kansas fan argue that their team was less talented. Interesting.”
I hope this trend continues, at least for 2009-10.
Hiphopopotamus said:
November 11th, 2009 at 6:53 pm
Collins wasn’t on that team- that was when those guys were freshman and Sherron was in HS.
And I know you aren’t trying to say just because he’s getting paid now that Kaun is more talented than Tucker.
I wouldn’t mind it continuing either, as long as we keep winning 75% of the head-to-heads.
The General said:
November 11th, 2009 at 7:24 pm
Sorry, I was looking at scout rosters and it took me to 2006-2007.
Anyway, if there is only one team that we can argue about talent wise, I think my point is valid.
Hiphopopotamus said:
November 11th, 2009 at 7:41 pm
No worries. Over the last five years I think it’s more even and would probably rate them like this:
04-05: Kansas
05-06: Texas
06-07: Kansas
07-08: Kansas
08-09: Texas
09-10: Texas might have more talent, but out experience at PG & C probably equal thing out
Your point is plenty well taken though, don’t get me wrong.
Bob in Houston said:
November 11th, 2009 at 8:30 pm
I wouldn’t mind it continuing either, as long as we keep winning 75% of the head-to-heads.
And KU was favored in…. 75 percent of those games.
Texas has been favored only in the two in 2006.
tree said:
November 11th, 2009 at 8:58 pm
Just read The Miracle of St. Anthony, anyone who is a basketball fan needs to read this.
dick said:
November 11th, 2009 at 10:13 pm
We should both be very happy with our basketball program’s present and futures. KU always has the talent that we have this year, sometimes it is just younger. We want to get to that point. We both have great coaches, Rick has had the opportunity to shine with teams of lesser talent than Self has, so it is impossible to say that Self couldn’t have done the same. I guess you could look at his success prior to being at a basketball power house like KU and say he was able to do it there.
The General said:
November 11th, 2009 at 10:13 pm
08-09? Really? Expound.
EggNog said:
November 11th, 2009 at 10:31 pm
Barnes has brought in considerably more talented players than we had before (Sonny Alvarado, Sheldon Quarles?) but he hasn’t had the quantity that the top tier schools have. We went from no real NBA talent to getting guys drafted who are staying in the league and being good contributors to their team. We are now starting to pick up steam and have been putting a guy in the NBA nearly every year the past few years. This team could be the team that really starts bringing the talent in for us.
Barnes’ teams have always had players who are more effort than talent. Our Final Four with TJ had him surrounded with Boddicker and Thomas, two of our most shining examples of guys who played all out. PJ Tucker won Big 12 POY for us, and it had very little to do with talent. I’m a big PJ fan, and he had some talent, but it was his drive that won him that award. Ivan Wagner, Freddie Williams, Royal Ivey all played tough defense for us but only Ivey had enough size to have that carry him to the NBA. Varez Ward seems to be of the same mold. The max effort guys get good treatment from Barnes and it sparks the rest of the team. I don’t know how many games we have played over the years where the opposing coach said that despite a win over us, it felt like a loss because it was so draining. Barnes as the best in the country at getting effort from his players? Maybe. But he is certainly running alongside any other coach that you could argue for.
Hiphopopotamus said:
November 12th, 2009 at 6:52 am
General – it’s probably pretty close, but remember, last year KU was picked somewhere in the 4th/5th range in the league preseason and started Brady Morningstar.
Starting lineups
Collins > Balbay
Taylor > Abrams (tough call here – on pure talent maybe Taylor, but especially given the Sr:Fr part I’d say Abrams gets and edge)
Morningstar < Mason
Morris Pittman
Pretty damn close, really, but a slight edge to the Horns.
Hiphopopotamus said:
November 12th, 2009 at 6:54 am
Guess me and the keyboard had a little disagreement there near the end…
Morris Pittman
Typing is hard.
Hiphopopotamus said:
November 12th, 2009 at 6:54 am
Son of a bitch, it did it again. James is better than Morris. Aldirch is better than Pittman. Fuck.
ctex80 said:
November 12th, 2009 at 9:12 am
Hiphop,
That doesn’t really take into account the margins though. Collins >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Balbay.
EggNog said:
November 12th, 2009 at 9:27 am
That also does little to take into account the lack of depth we had last year.
Vasherized said:
November 12th, 2009 at 3:47 pm
Hiphop,
We’re not tacitly conceiding that Aldrich > Pittman at this point. I view it as a wash given what each team is asking their guy to do.
blackscholes said:
November 12th, 2009 at 4:56 pm
Abe Lemons was also one of the great teachers of the match-up zone.
General – outstanding writeup. One of my (few) peeves with Barnes is his inability to me to have anything in the playbook to inbound the ball under pressure. Seems like this has been a nagging – albeit usually minor – issue with him. Comment?
blackscholes said:
November 12th, 2009 at 5:31 pm
Just updated my calendar with the hoops schedule. Thankfully only a handful of the ridiculous LSN games this year. I guess the Big 12 designation for coverage means the game might be televised subject to the conference TV package? They’re mostly second-tier games.
Bob in Houston said:
November 13th, 2009 at 2:42 pm
“Big 12″ means they’ll be in the conference package.
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