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1. lowery said:

   November 2nd, 2009 at 10:27 am

   The espn highlights were funny in their lack of Vince coverage. “So Vince gets the start. Here is Chris Johnson. They won. Next.”

2. Doperbo said:

   November 2nd, 2009 at 10:40 am

   You’re a better man than I. I only sat through an hour of the Jerry Lewis Favre-a-thon before giving up on ESPN completely.

   There some highlight videos and interviews on the Titan’s homepage though if you’re interested.

3. Orangeblood79 said:

   November 2nd, 2009 at 10:47 am

   I would normally say that losing one man (Haynesworth), no matter how good he is, does not cause a team to plummet the way Tennessee has. But I have to say…..that defense is light years behind where it was just one year ago, and there doesn’t seem to be a discernable reason why. Their pass defense is just atrocious, and the adjustments have led to their run-defense getting gashed repeatedly.

   Kerry Collins in Tennessee reminds me of the last days of Drew Bledsoe playing with Dallas. Teams would just bring the house because Bledsoe literally could not get out of the way…and he had no time to throw. So they just kept barraging him again and again and again, and we all knew it was over.

   But when did it all go wrong in Nashville?

   I say Week 3, when a rookie Mark Sanchez beat a once proud franchise that just couldn’t get out of its own way. The following losses to Jax and New England just put the nail in the coffin.

   Hard to say whether or not Vince can lift morale around there…especially when your coach has waited until you are basically out of playoff contention to put you in.

4. ghostofagroundgame said:

   November 2nd, 2009 at 10:53 am

   VY looked really good in what I saw on the Red Zone network. He was intelligent about his running, stepped out of bounds when it was clear he wouldn’t pick up a first down, and threw a really nice touchdown pass. He looked a lot like the VY I remember from college. Also, he looked like he is releasing the ball over the top rather than slinging it 3/4.

5. Doperbo said:

   November 2nd, 2009 at 10:59 am

   That’s a good point 79- they’ve had some injuries in the secondary but it’s hard to put your finger on how they got that bad so quickly. Haynesworth in a contract year is a game changer. Bulluck is still a great player but has lost a step. It’s multifactorial.

   What I am really trying to wrap my head around is Fisher’s motivation here. You’d assume the guy wants to keep his job. Maybe that assumption is wrong. The fact is Vince can win games (has won games, has a winning record in fact) and he only gets the start after an ultimatum from the owner? He’s the youngest QB to make it to the playoffs in franchise history.

   What was said between those two that I don’t know? Seems like Leinart/Cutler envy should be long gone by now. I keep coming back to the options that he’s either willful or stupid. Willful if you listen to Haynesworth. Still doesn’t make sense.

6. ghostofagroundgame said:

   November 2nd, 2009 at 11:14 am

   Fisher is an asshole. And not that good of a coach. VY is a guy who works best when he gets a little opportunity for free-lancing. Fisher is a guy whose idea of offensive sophistication is whatever worked in the NFC East in the late 80’s. VY will outlast Fisher in Tennessee.

7. TaylorTRoom said:

   November 2nd, 2009 at 11:17 am

   Why would Fisher act that way? Some would say it was due to 2008’s week 1 antics, that he decided Vince was a drama queen. Peter King would argue that, but Peter King also thinks that Brett Favre isn’t a drama queen.

   I think that Fisher is like Buddy Ryan- he wants his offense to stay out of the way of the defense, both between the stripes and in the locker. He wants his defensive stars to be the team’s leaders. He doesn’t want star receivers, because star WRs are ego-driven prima donnas.

   His defense sucked in 2006, so he had no argument against VY being the leader (memory jog- remember the VY-haters in 2006 saying that Pac-man was the guy really responsible for the turn around?). With a good defense, he wants his QB to have the personality of a McNair or Collins- just show up for work, don’t worry about the rest of the team. Fisher and Young are just a bad fit.

8. houstonearler said:

   November 2nd, 2009 at 11:23 am

   So much of what VY does for an offense won’t show up on a stat sheet. See Ced Benson averaging 1.5 yards more per carry once VY was in the game. Or Jamaal going from 7.3 yards per carry in 2005 with VY and then, with basically the same OL, going to 5.3 per carry in 2006 with Colt.

   Travis Henry is another nice example. The season before Vince joined Tennessee, he averaged 3.8 per carry (after averaging 3.5 per carry with Buffalo the season before that). Before Vince was inserted in the lineup, he had 30 carries for 82 yards (around 2.4 per carry). With Vince he had 240 carries for 1129 yards — 4.71 per carry.

   Vince just needs to improve at taking care of the football. He does that and he can win big in the NFL. He was inconsistent his first two seasons at Texas — pretty much awesome 75% of the time and the other times either mediocre or bad because of turnovers. When he started taking care of the ball he was consistently great.

9. srr50 said:

   November 2nd, 2009 at 11:29 am

   What I am really trying to wrap my head around is Fisher’s motivation here. You’d assume the guy wants to keep his job.

   I assume just the opposite. He wants out, and he wants his severance pay, which means he needs to be fired. He also wants to remain desirable for owners/colleges looking for a new coach, so he can’t really subvert Vince’s attempt at a comeback. He just does what he did yesterday, give Vince a little room, say all the right things and wait.

10. Homesick Alien said:

    November 2nd, 2009 at 11:40 am

    What you should hope for is that Vince plays for a Head Coach/Offensive Coordinator next season who want/s him. That is all.

    Whether it’s a new coach in Nashville or a new team, what Vince needs more than anything is a boss who wants to employ him.

    Ever worked for someone who didn’t want you? Whose boss was making them employ you? Now multiply that situation times a thousand infinities burning with the heat of that ant under the magnifying glass, and you’ve got being an NFL QB in the Merrill Hoge/Fisherball NFL.

    My hopes are simple: I hope that Vince will play next season for a coaching staff who really want him.

11. Short Wheelbase said:

    November 2nd, 2009 at 11:40 am

    There’s always the Texans.

12. Homesick Alien said:

    November 2nd, 2009 at 11:45 am

    Earler,

    Dead on.

    What became of Travis Henry after he stopped playing with Vince?

    Yesterday’s breakout game from Johnson was not a coincidence.

    If Beef is what’s for dinner, Vince is what’s good for runners.

    My one concern for Vince is that I don’t see the lateral explosion that he used to have. It was that unbelievable 5-yard sideways jump that Vince used to make defenders soil themselves. And he used it his rookie year against New England to make Bruschi look dumb.

    If he gets that back, look out.

    Like all QBs not named Manning or Brady, as you pointed out, he just needs to take better care of the football, which he did well yesterday. And play in an offense that’s not code-named Oopy Goopy.

13. Jigglebilly said:

    November 2nd, 2009 at 12:09 pm

    Why does Leinart always get a pass, while Vinny who has accomplished 1000 times more in the league than he, always get roasted?

14. homesickalien said:

    November 2nd, 2009 at 12:21 pm

    Leinart didn’t teabag Hoge’s mom.

15. Woody Bombay said:

    November 2nd, 2009 at 12:49 pm

    I’m not sure that Leinart gets a pass, really. It’s just that he’s completely off the radar. Everyone who follows the NFL has completely forgotten about him.

    It’s really pretty simple. Young gets roasted because of

    1) Wonderlic
    2) “quitting” on the team via faking injury or refusing to go on the field
    3) gun-in-the-glove box nonsense
    4) reputation for pouting.

    Of those, I think that only the last one has any validity at all. And it’s something he can, and hopefully has, grown out of. Fisher has completely screwed VY in Nashville, but I believe Vince when he says the benching has made him think about things, learn, and grow up a bit. I hope get kicks ass for the rest of the year, then gets the hell out of Tennessee and onto a team that will play to his strengths. I hate that rooting for VY, Scaife, Howard and Griffin also means rooting for Bud Goddamn Motherfucking Piece-of-Shit Asshole SOB Adams.

16. jon j said:

    November 2nd, 2009 at 1:14 pm

    they showed the game in st louis, so i was able to watch the entire game. vy played well. his passes were accurate except for two. on the first drive, he almost threw a pick on a deep ball into the end zone. it was dropped by cb, but i also noticed that the wr completely gave up on the play when he noticed it was overthrown. his other poor pass was on a 3rd and short where he threw at the feet of chris johnson.

    he made a signature vy paly on a 3rd and 6 later in the game, avoiding the rush and throwing off his back foot on about a 15 yd out route for the conversion.

    espn sucks but i assume their thinking in not showing that many highlights is that tenn is 0-6, jax is just a boring terrible team that no one gives a shit about. vy is going to have to show up for the next few weeks for him to get any hype.

17. ctex80 said:

    November 2nd, 2009 at 1:17 pm

    I lived in Nashville until recently, and it is amazing how much vitriol there was towards Vince up until about 3 or 4 weeks ago. That entire fanbase is out of their minds. My take on it is that Vince has always been Bud’s guy, and Fisher has never liked him. Fisher didn’t want to admit that he made a bad decision when they re-signed Collins. I almost don’t want Vince to pull them out of this hole because it might save Fisher’s job.

    Vince has never been given a fair shake in Nashville. Vince had that team at 10-6, and then they added an All-Pro RB in Johnson, a cupcake schedule last year, and all of a sudden Collins is the hero? Just watch what Vince can do with so decent talent around him, something he hasn’t had until yesterday.

    As to why the Titans started sucking this year, age seems to be the primary factor. Yes, losing Haynesworth hurt, but Kearse and KVB got old during the offseason. Also, something has been up with Mike Griffin, because he’s been horrible since opening weekend. Finnegan being out hurt also. I look for the Titans to finish the year 7-9, maybe 8-8 if Vince gets on a roll.

18. Doperbo said:

    November 2nd, 2009 at 1:32 pm

    Woody- I’m rethinking the K.S. “Bud” Adams stationary that I bought you for Kawanzaa.

    srr50- It’s hard for me to believe a dude would tank a season that badly just to get fired. There are so many other ways to get there. We let Scipio go last week for texting pictures of Trip’s junk to ‘allBCstaff’, as an example. I get your point though. Let me think about it.

    Taylor- I think your irreconcilable personality difference hits the closest- it’s just hard to see how a relationship that should be built on mutual success could get that polarized. I mean, 0-6 + Bud Made Me is pretty clear cut as a “how far I’m willing to go” statement.

    Homesick- Well said. That’s where I am, with the exception that I like quite a few of the non-Horn Titans so a trade is less satisfying than making it work there somehow. Right now it’s a rough concept – things working out in Nashville I mean.

    I pictuing a Disney Movie where Jeff Fisher accidentally finds an Ipod full of magic Ludacris and T.I. songs. When he plays it he transforms into a tough, yet hip, understanding Michelle Pfeiffer/Dangerous Minds cool guy type, only with a mustache and corn rows. From then on when Vince throws and interception he screams “THATS ALLRIGHT DOG!” and gives him a chest bump on the sideline. Then Emilio Esteves helps the defense play Hockey and win the pennant. It sorta gets confusing at the end.

19. Sailor Ripley said:

    November 2nd, 2009 at 1:45 pm

    Does Virginia Clemm jump a shark?

20. nordberg said:

    November 2nd, 2009 at 1:46 pm

    You should write that script and sell it, especially the “magic i-pod” part. I’m being 75% serious.
    Hell, Sandler made a movie about a fucking magic remote control.

21. LosHorn said:

    November 2nd, 2009 at 1:55 pm

    Vince just wins, period. And say it with me, why do we play….?

    I’m so tired of ESPN analysts nitpicking everything he does wrong or not forgiving two incidents in 2008 (one that was completely blown out of proportion and one that appears to be at least mostly fabricated). They only show interviews with players that don’t support Vince and say he gave up on them so they don’t want him.

    ESPN seems to have a self-fulfilling prophecy desire. “We predicted Vince to fail, so if we report that he failing in every aspect we can ignore the wins and the awards and all the good he does and we’ll be right.”

    He was burdened with crappy play calling, no talent around him (name a WR from 2006 or 2007 without looking, I dare you), and new O -coordinators every year.

    Let Vince run, let Vince be Vince. Try to hold the other team to less than 30. They’ll win. It’s just what Vince does.

22. srr50 said:

    November 2nd, 2009 at 2:48 pm

    srr50- It’s hard for me to believe a dude would tank a season that badly just to get fired. There are so many other ways to get there.

    Dude, Fisher has worked for Bud Adams for 15 years. He has had enough. Adams has fired five previous coaches during the season — including Jack Pardee — who Fisher replaced. He also has $12 million left on his contract, and he is not about to walk away from that.

    Pre-conceived notions. That’s what Fisher has with Vince. He was a “wild and unpredictable” QB who was anything but a system QB, which means he puts Fisher out of his comfort zone.

    It’s like Huck at BC. He may show up at the next board meeting in a Hawaiian shirt with a three-day hangover, and printouts of Scipio’s text photos of Trip’s junk, but he is still a stat nerd to us — because that is our comfort zone, and anything else will upset our work universe.

    I don’t think Fisher tanked the season. I think he stubbornly tried to ride it out with his guy. He just sees the idiot owner’s intervention as a step towards leaving Tennessee with some nice parting gifts.

23. Contrarian said:

    November 2nd, 2009 at 3:29 pm

    I like VY, but you gotta face reality. 125 yards on 18 attempts? He cant throw down field. You watch him drop back, and he’s scared shitless thowing 10 yards past the LOS. It’s not that he cant, or didn’t do it in college. But he has a mental hurdle when it comes to actual NFL level throws.
    Next time you’re watching the Rose Bowl, count how many of his passes go beyond eight yards. Sure, he chucked it deep against CU and OU when guys are running open with no one around them. But against NFL corners he was flat scared to throw it. The one NFL-type throw I remember is the TD to Limas Sweed against OSU. That throw makes me think that the body is able, but the mind is not willing.

    Go ahead and rip me, but just answer why he looks so uncomfortable throwing the ball. Matt Ryan can do it, Jamarcus Russell cant. In four years VY has looked more like the latter than the former. I’m sorry.

24. The General said:

    November 2nd, 2009 at 4:21 pm

    Has anyone Michelle Pfeiffer lately? This might already be happening.

25. The General said:

    November 2nd, 2009 at 4:22 pm

    Seen. Michell Pfeiffer is not a verb, yet.

26. Mojo said:

    November 2nd, 2009 at 4:33 pm

    Fisher is following the similar pattern they used with McNair: draft a stud QB with wheels and out of the pocket skills and leave him to rot on the bench his first few years until he is sufficiently neutered into the system.

    I remember Bum Phillips calling a radio talk show regarding McNair and saying, “when you have a superstar that don’t fit your system, change your system…”

27. Sugarpants said:

    November 2nd, 2009 at 6:15 pm

    Some of this has to be put on Young. Before he was benched in the first game of his third season, he looked terrible in the preseason. The problem was that he was falling into the trap of trying to prove guys like Merrill Hoge wrong – he kept sitting in the pocket and teams were content to sit back in coverage against him. He’s much better off as a scrambling passer, where his passes can’t get knocked down and the defense can’t read his eyes.

    He’s at least got a future #1 WR now (Britt, who he hit on a 40 yard TD pass in the preseason), three solid TEs, a good receiving back, and at least a couple of guys who might be #3s on many other teams around the league (Gage & Washington). So there are some respectable guys to throw to.

    If he’s patient and settles for the 70% completions at 10 yards/pass and an occassional scramble for 5-10 yards, with their running game they could win 6 of their last 10 – maybe more if the playoff picture is settled.

28. p said:

    November 2nd, 2009 at 9:33 pm

    by the way……

    Someone linked this to the Titanstailgate forum here…

    http://www.titanstailgate.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1950

    So I am sure guys like Contrarian are trolling around here. I will humor him anyway.

    Contrarian-

    Here is a little knowledge for you. In 2005 Vince Young went against 4 teams with a grand total of 21 secondary guys drafted into the NFL. Here is the breakdown……..

    Ohio State-

    Ashton Youboty
    Donte Whitner
    Malcolm Jenkins
    Tyler Everett
    Donald Washington
    Nate Salley

    Oklahoma-

    Eric Bassey
    Chijoke Oneyenegecha
    DJ Wolfe
    Darien Williams
    Marcus Walker
    Reggie Smith

    Colorado-

    JJ Billingsley
    Lorenzo Sims
    Terry Washington
    Terrence Wheatley

    USC

    Darnell Bing
    John Walker
    Scott Ware
    Justin Wyatt
    Terrell Thomas

    In those games, vs the best competition on the schedule, Young was stellar. Here is his line over those games against those four opponents(played CU twice).

    101 for 142 (71.12% completions)
    1307 yards passing
    10 td passes
    2 INTs

    There were NFL level throws in each game. The out pass to Sweed vs OSU. The slant for a TD, the deep post to Pittman, and the throw for the go-ahead score, were also NFL level throws.

    The fade in the OU game to Ramonce was perfect. The deep ball to Billy Pittman was so perfect, he didn’t even have to break stride.

    The throw to Sweed on the deep post with a defender blanketing him, was money.

    The point is, you obviously didn’t watch Young at all in college, or you would already know this. Young is another Favre mentality. He is so confident in himself and his abilities, that he will often make a mistake trying to make a play. In other words, he is a gunslinger!

    That mentality does not mesh wish Fishers ideology. Fisher is a don’t take risks coach, and has a risk taker at QB. There is a reason why Young plays better when they go uptempo. The two need separate. Give Young some playmakers, an offensive coordinator that understands Young’s abilities, is willing to allow some creativity, and you would have something special.

29. ContrarianHasNoClue said:

    November 2nd, 2009 at 10:58 pm

    Obviously the game wasn’t on anywhere but Tennessee and Jacksonville, but I was able to catch it over a stream online.

    Vince completed several 15+ yard passes in that game. One of which was an 18 yard frozen rope beauty. He completed 5-6 of them around 10 yards or so.

    How hard is it to understand that it was Vince’s first real game since the first game of 2008? Obviously he was going to start out with some pretty easy throws. Plus, he only got 18 freaking attempts. He only got 18 attempts because they blew the Jags out with their running game. The entire 4th quarter was a “Hand off to LenDale and run out the clock” snooze fest.

    Vince completed 83% of his passes and only had 2 bad throws all day. He overthrew Gage on a long pass, but Gage kind of quit on the route. Then he underthrew CJ on a dump off to convert a 3rd down, but he had a defender right in his face.

    Obviously he still has a lot to prove, but Vince did everything he was asked to Sunday. He was calm. He was composed. He was accurate. He was running well and extending drives. He was in complete command.

    The reason Vince hasn’t done well throwing down the field in the NFL is because of his receivers and the system he plays in. In Fisherball, you don’t throw the ball deep. You dink and dunk and run the ball and hope to get in range for a field goal. It gets even worse when your wide receivers are a bunch of scrubs that wouldn’t crack the 3-deep on any other team in the NFL, which is what Vince has been working with since 2006.

    Go back and check Collins’ stats last year. That a guy that has thrown for 40000 some odd yards in his career and has had no problem airing the ball out deep. I think he completed all of about 5 passes over 20 yards the entire season. Part of that is because he’s old now and he sucks, but a lot of it has to do with Fisherball doing everything in its power to not rely on the QB or let the QB do anything risky.

    Vince needs to continue playing well and then either give Tennessee the finger and go get a job somewhere else where the coach will mold the offense around him, or watch Fisher get fired and then he can resign with the Titans. Then he and CJ can run a proto-spread and win a Super Bowl together.

30. p said:

    November 2nd, 2009 at 11:19 pm

    It’s funny guys can’t grasp that the kid can play.

    I frequently got on the Titans message boards, just to get a feel for what they thought, when Vince was playing. It amazed me that they HUNG on every missed throw. People would post videos of every single incompletion, as if every other QB in the NFL doesn’t have them.

    Then when they saw Kerry Collins come in and throw only 12 Tds, even after the addition of Chris Johnson and Crumpler, they still refused to believe maybe it wasn’t him. Fisher’s offenses have always looked like that, sans one stand out year by McNair. You would think after years of mediocrity, Titans fans would just chalk it up as a young player in a Fisherball system.
    I, for one, can’t wait for him to get out of there.

31. fightingterrorismsince1492 said:

    November 3rd, 2009 at 7:51 am

    …Scipio was canned?….cancel my subscription…..

32. Titans309Fan said:

    November 3rd, 2009 at 10:57 am

    I was the one who linked to your article on the titanstailgate.com message board. I am a fan of your Titans/VY blogs, and I hope with Vince starting from now on, you would be willing to write more about it.

    Even living in Nashville and going to all the games, it is still difficult to know what Fisher’s real feelings about Vince are, and why it took an edict from Bud to start him. Collins is certainly not the main reason the Titans were 0-6, but he definitely was a factor. He could not do anything in the 4th quarter in the first three games, and he was largely ineffective in the last three games.

    I am quite happy with the switch and with Vince’s play against the Jags. Let’s hope this is the spark the Titans needed to at least gain respectability for the rest of the season.

33. Bartoncreek said:

    November 3rd, 2009 at 2:51 pm

    I believe that Fisher let his personal feelings get in the way of doing what was best for the team. He was the one that wanted Collins resigned, he was the one who said how well he played when he clearly didn’t. He is the one who likes the feel of his ’stache against Kerry’s belly button……

    At some point that love became defiance. Against Adams and the team. The team knew that Fisher should go with Vince, when he didn’t switch after game 3 and began throwing everyone on the team under the bus that wasn’t named Collins, he lost them. That is why the laid down in their last 3.

    I don’t know if Fisher is an idiot, wants to be fired, or genuinely doesn’t understand that Vince is much better than Collins. I think it is a little of all. He really isn’t a very good coach. One Superbowl appearance in 15 years. A career record just a little better than .500 and very few playoff wins. Mediocre at best. At this point he appears to be a full blown moron and the answer may be as simple as that.

    I wish Vince the best. But I gave up on Jeff Fisher a long time ago. We will never know how good he can or can’t be until he plays for someone other than Fisher. Whatever happens the rest of the season, I hope and pray that next year VY finds himself on a team coached by anyone other than Fisher. Be that in Tennessee or anywhere else.

34. TaylorTRoom said:

    November 3rd, 2009 at 3:39 pm

    SRR50 posted- “He wants out, and he wants his severance pay, which means he needs to be fired.”

    I have heard Troy Aikman say this on the radio, and Bettis wrote it in his column. If this many people think it’s likely, you have to wonder…

35. Titans309Fan said:

    November 3rd, 2009 at 6:51 pm

    Fisher is not mediocre and he isn’t a .500 coach (at least 20 games over .500). He is the winningest coach in Oilers/Titans history in both regular season and postseason history. He is the only coach in franchise history to go to a Super Bowl. He is definitely the best coach this team has had in its 50 year history.

    From the way Bud is talking, Fisher will be around till the end of his contract in 2010 at the very least. Vince still has a lot of work to do to remain a Titan next year. I hope he makes it. Winning a good number of these last 9 games will go a long way toward that.

36. Bartoncreek said:

    November 3rd, 2009 at 7:50 pm

    Not to derail the thread, but I don’t understand why Titans fans are so loyal to Fisher. He has won 54% of his games. He has had 6 winning seasons in 15 years. SIX. That would have gotten you fired at virtually every franchise in the NFL. He has a losing record in the playoffs and has won a grand total of 5 playoff games in 15 years. He is mediocre at best. The numbers don’t lie. I just don’t get why Titans fans insist that he is a good coach.

37. TaylorTRoom said:

    November 3rd, 2009 at 8:01 pm

    “He is definitely the best coach this team has had in its 50 year history.”

    It’s amazing how few people understand what an innovator Bum Phillips was. He invented the gap numbering system and the first 3 – 3 defense, and probably did as much for the defensive side as Bill Walsh ever did for the offensive side. He never cared to promote himself publically, though, and preferred to be known as a good old boy.

38. TaylorTRoom said:

    November 4th, 2009 at 4:43 am

    Oops, meant “first 3 – 4 defense”

39. Doperbo said:

    November 4th, 2009 at 2:35 pm

    I remember you Sec309fan. Really well rounded poster and very informative. I liked your stuff. You’re welcome anytime. I don’t imagine my take is well received in the TOMB, being intended for a Longhorn audience and so critical of Fisher. That’s where a lot of us are right now though- there are some savvy people whose opinion I respect that think he’s trying to get fired.

    How long ago does that Giants came three years ago (the amazing fourth quarter comeback) where Fisher said “That just happened. That just happened!” in the press conference afterwards seem to you? Seems like a million years to me. They say winning cures a lot of ills and I really hope this works out as well, but I can’t see Fisher and Vince coexisting long term there.

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