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1. ghostofagroundgame said:

   October 28th, 2009 at 8:48 am

   I have always said, and will continue to do so, that Tebow’s Heisman and beatification is the most tangible evidence that a racial barrier remains in college sports that I have can recall. VY was better — at everything — except Public Relations. And talking to god.

2. HenryJames said:

   October 28th, 2009 at 8:57 am

   Vince was God.

3. BrickHorn said:

   October 28th, 2009 at 8:57 am

   It’s partly race. But I think a lot of it has to do with blind sentimentalism. The middle aged white guys that make up the credentialed media remember flipping through Daddy’s yearbooks and hearing stories of leather-helmeted farm kids or broad-shouldered Polish immigrants dragging piles of tacklers for 3 tough yards. That was the way football was in the good old days, before the forward pass and year-round training elevated the importance of speed and skill and resigned the plodding tough guy to one of two thankless positions (fullback or tight end).

   Stated simply, Tebow is the poster boy for those who pine for the glory days of American-style rugby.

4. Horncasting said:

   October 28th, 2009 at 9:14 am

   I think it has more to do with Tebow playing for the winning team on 2 of the last 3 national championship teams, and being a favorite to play in and win it this year (potentially making if 3 of 4) than it does race.

   Some of that is luck and circumstance – Tebow certainly wasn’t what drove them to the MNC in 06, and last year Florida was fortunate to go in as a 1 loss team despite losing to an unranked team at home. VY’s 1 loss season barely netted a BCS invite, when the 1 loss was to a top 3 team that ultimately played in the MNC game, and in his MNC season he went undefeated.

5. Horncasting said:

   October 28th, 2009 at 9:16 am

   Also, if Cowherd thinks that VY would have rather run than pass in 2005, he missed a hell of a good year of college football.

6. Ag_in_TX said:

   October 28th, 2009 at 9:19 am

   Jerrod Johnson is more like Vince Young than Tim Tebow is because he’s (1) tall and (2) black.

7. ghostofagroundgame said:

   October 28th, 2009 at 9:19 am

   BH — I think you and I are on the same page. it’s hard to separate the blind sentiment from race — because those guys are mostly pining for a pre-integration era.

8. ghostofagroundgame said:

   October 28th, 2009 at 9:21 am

   Ag —

   Ooh, thanks for playing.

9. BrickHorn said:

   October 28th, 2009 at 9:22 am

   I think it has more to do with Tebow playing for the winning team on 2 of the last 3 national championship teams

   That’s true, but I’m still convinced that the Tebow love is driven by his striking similarity to the old-time football player archetype. He’s a bulky white guy who runs hard, yells meaningless commands on the sidelines and usually ends up covered in mud or blood or some other fluid synonymous with hardnosed sandlot football. Tebow looks like he just stepped out of a Norman Rockwell painting. The media mistake his superficial resemblance to the idealized football heroes of yesteryear for greatness.

10. bighornfan32 said:

    October 28th, 2009 at 9:23 am

    I swear, I can’t think of a guy who has benefited more from being on a highly talented, well coached team than Tebow. His being the “greatest football player ever” status is relies solely on the fact that Florida has had the best coach, and best talent in the country. Dozens of QBs could have met or exceeded his stats in their offense. Colt would have been unstoppable.

    And he isn’t even that much of a leader. Running around pumping your fists and screaming “Let’s Go!” does not a leader make.

11. BrickHorn said:

    October 28th, 2009 at 9:30 am

    And he isn’t even that much of a leader. Running around pumping your fists and screaming “Let’s Go!” does not a leader make.

    But he gave a locker room speech during the crisis of the 2008 Florida Gators narrative, just like Knute Rockne used to do in movies about Notre Dame’s fabled gridiron warriors.

    You see? The media wants college football to match the Hollywood formula, where tough, gritty white kids overcome adversity through sheer strength of will. That’s not the way things really work (of course), but why worry about insignificant things like reality when you sell stories for a living?

12. WWGDD said:

    October 28th, 2009 at 9:33 am

    I feared Tebow’s concussion and am glad it wasn’t more than that. Brantley is the better QB. But Urban is of course riding the media wave while he has Tebow. A concussion by the way is an automatic week out. Has been since the late 90’s and still to this day. I couldn’t stand watching and reading sports outlets discussing whether or not he would be back. It was a freaking concussion and nothing more. It’s football. 20% of a college football team probably receives them. 3% of the 20% probably admit to it and these are the guys who sit 1 week and are back the next.

    Back to my point in response to BHF32, Brantley would do much more under Urban than Tebow.

13. WWGDD said:

    October 28th, 2009 at 9:40 am

    “I feared Tebow’s concussion and am glad it wasn’t more than that. Brantley is the better QB.”

    I meant to dive into this more but I remembered how much I dislike the media/Tebow. At the time of the concussion FLA/ TX looked like the matchup to be. Tebow sucks. Brantley is an actual QB. I would rather face Tebow than Brantley w/ the rest of the talent FLA has.

    Media loves his “bloody” picture. It was either field paint or the dry resin they use for the wet balls. Fuck.

    His halftime speech, notice how the media prick yells in front of the camera and not once turns all the way around to voice his thoughts to his 20 something teammates behind him. I wish Fox News had a sports hour. They would get to the bottom of this BS hype.

14. ghostofagroundgame said:

    October 28th, 2009 at 9:41 am

    Tim Tebow = Bucky Richardson.

15. Vasherized said:

    October 28th, 2009 at 9:45 am

    Tebow’s speech will rank in the history books somewhere in between MLK and Patton.

16. TebowShmebow said:

    October 28th, 2009 at 9:46 am

    The statistics don’t lie, Vince is obviously the better player in just about every phase of the game. And, if he had stayed his senior year, I think the gross career numbers would be better than Tebow’s as well.

    The only true comparison that can be made is that both Vince and Tebow are the undepusted leaders of there teams and are/were the backbone of their organizations. I don’t have the numbers, but I would imagine the % of total offense generated by VY and Tebow is pretty similar.

    It’s unfortunate that Cowherd actually gets paid for his work. I’d love to see him in a situation where an educated college football fan could offer a rebuttle without being dismissed or cut off by a commercial.

17. Joe Mack said:

    October 28th, 2009 at 9:51 am

    Who is Colin Cowherd? Is he kin to George Gandergaggle?

18. The General said:

    October 28th, 2009 at 10:00 am

    Tim Tebow = Bucky Richardson.

    False. Bucky was better. Bucky had a better pro career than Tebow will have if he remains a QB.

19. slobhorn said:

    October 28th, 2009 at 10:07 am

    The level of intellectual laziness in mainstream sports media is shocking. How many times can Peter King write about Vince Young being a failure at the professional level without acknowledging that (just perhaps) his coaches are trying to put a square peg in a round hole.
    And I might be a WASP, but there is absolutely no question that race plays a huge role in the level of adulation afforded to Tebow versus Vince.

20. TebowShmebow said:

    October 28th, 2009 at 10:21 am

    “Fortunately, the day is close at hand when Tebow will ascend to the NFL to stand with a clipboard at the right hand of Raheem Morris.”

    Tebow should get a shot at fullback to see if he can push the pile.

    I can’t decide if I would rather see Tebow (1) signal plays to Vince from the Tennessee sideline or (2) run the zone read with Vince and get smashed after the DE falls for the fake handoff

21. raoulduke said:

    October 28th, 2009 at 10:56 am

    After the concussion Tim Tebow rose after three days.

    Greg Davis won the Frank Broyles award with Vince as his quarterback.

    You tell me, which is a bigger miracle?

22. uthookem said:

    October 28th, 2009 at 11:06 am

    raoulduke – Game. Set. Match.

23. Huckleberry said:

    October 28th, 2009 at 11:14 am

    I don’t have the numbers, but I would imagine the % of total offense generated by VY and Tebow is pretty similar.

    There’s actually an interesting story in there somewhere. Their full seasons as starting QB:

    VY 2004: 244.00 yards TotalO – 464.42 yards TeamO = 52.5%
    VY 2005: 314.31 yards TotalO – 512.08 yards TeamO = 61.4%
    TT 2007: 321.62 yards TotalO – 457.15 yards TeamO = 70.4%
    TT 2008: 244.21 yards TotalO – 445.07 yards TeamO = 54.9%
    TT 2009: 232.14 yards TotalO – 457.00 yards TeamO = 50.8%

    Tebow’s 2007 campaign was truly very remarkable. Certainly Heisman-worthy without considering other possibilities for the award. But look a little more closely. As Tim Tebow becomes less and less the focus of the Gator offense, their total yardage output is virtually unaffected. Meanwhile, their team success in terms of wins and losses has gone up.

    On the other hand, When Vince Young became more and more the focus of the Longhorn offense, total yardage ouput went up significantly and team success as well.

    Hmm.

24. Monahorns said:

    October 28th, 2009 at 11:15 am

    To add to the racial angle, were any of you surprised that Tebow won the 2007 Heisman instead of Darren McFadden? I was utterly shocked. I don’t know the statistics, but McFadden had an awesome year and had even beat LSU that year. He was an awesome RB who also did some passing in the Wildhog.

    I never blame racial discrimination for things usually. But after Tebow won that Heisman, the only reasoning I could think of was that McFadden just got shafted because of his skin color.

25. TebowShmebow said:

    October 28th, 2009 at 11:36 am

    Very interesting. Great post!

26. Bob in Houston said:

    October 28th, 2009 at 11:45 am

    But Huck, it just shows (again) that Young and Tebow are different…

27. milksteak said:

    October 28th, 2009 at 11:51 am

    Also tim tebow is a virgin, VY invented sex.

28. BrickHorn said:

    October 28th, 2009 at 11:52 am

    Huck – you left out the fact that no one works harder than Tebow. No one. That guy works harder than an entire Nike factory full of 8 year-old Cambodians.

29. Ricky said:

    October 28th, 2009 at 11:53 am

    There’s a reason the Heisman has become mainly a QB award…its the last skill position that still has enough white guys to ensure that somewhat with skin lighter than the trophy might win the award every so often.

    Tebow love is all about the whiteness…Western Civ has wanted a white Jesus for well over a thousand years.

30. Homesick Alien said:

    October 28th, 2009 at 12:07 pm

    Tim Tebow was a racist, he’s simple and plain. Motherfuck him and John Wayne.

31. ghostofagroundgame said:

    October 28th, 2009 at 12:08 pm

    “voice of reason” — assuming that was biting satire, which for all of our sakes is what I’m going to assume, then kudos.

    If, on the other hand, there was any sincerity in it then you might enjoy a little band called Skrewdriver (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skrewdriver).

32. Gate_of_Horn said:

    October 28th, 2009 at 12:10 pm

    Wait a sec. I get what Brick is saying about how Tebow has a throwback kind of Rockwell appeal that makes him uniquely marketable as a Heisman candidate and general gridiron hero for hyping college football to the public. My only beef is that we’re looking at a comparison of Vince Young to Tebow, which is an after the fact kind of comparison. Granted, that was the line of the original post and sets the debate. However, the premise of comparing those two QB’s seems a little slanted. If you want to compare the two, then surely the nostalgia factor plays into Tebow’s general image and appeal as a football hero. Vince didn’t fit the Disney character image that Tebow plays up to so well.

    But Vince didn’t lose the Heisman to Tebow, he lost it to Reggie Bush. There was no competition between their respective public images. Instead it was about the public images of the Electric Reggie Bush vs. oh, another Athletic QB, Vince Young. The one area where nostalgia may have played a role there was something to do with USC as an institution. They have a special place in CFB history, and made a great storyline and the once and future dynasty, cementing their resurgence in the grandaddy of them all, the Rose Bowl.

33. Hornmatic said:

    October 28th, 2009 at 12:14 pm

    Can’t believe so many hornfans are trying to make it seem like Tebow aint a beast. Just because he’s over hyped doesn’t mean he isn’t a baller. Huck posted some of his stats, but I can’t believe what I’m hearing.

    Brantly>Tebow
    Bucky Richardson = Tebow

    Y’all going overboard on this…

    TT obviously benefits from great coaching and great talent around him, but it’s infantile to make it seem like he sucks or something. I can’t believe some people want to “downgrade a kid for doing everything right”. We all know he’s overhyped and maybe a little overrated, but what’s the point of marginalizing his actual talents and accomplishments?

    2007-He threw for 3286 yards with 32 TDs and 6 picks. Added 895 and 23 TDs on the ground.

    2008-Threw for 2746, 30 TDs and 4 INTs. Rushed for 673 and 12 TDs

    How is that anything less than phenomenal?

34. Ag_in_TX said:

    October 28th, 2009 at 12:20 pm

    This begs the question – what kind of bias did Sam Bradford get? A minority who looks like a real honest to goodness white guy? Double bonus points!

35. charlie varrick said:

    October 28th, 2009 at 12:23 pm

    2006 Rose Bowl: Vince over Tim. No question. Not sure Tim could have mustered 200 yards rushing and 267 yards passing against the greatest team ever.

36. ghostofagroundgame said:

    October 28th, 2009 at 12:23 pm

    hornmatic –

    Bucky Richardson was a really great college quarterback. So is Tebow. Neither of them trranscends the game like VY did.

37. BEHorn said:

    October 28th, 2009 at 12:27 pm

    “The media wants college football to match the Hollywood formula, where tough, gritty white kids overcome adversity through sheer strength of will.”

    You mean like “The Express”? Or is it more of a “Remember the Titans” thing?

    (Sorry – I don’t necessarily disagree with your point, but the notion of a “Hollywood formula” involving “white kids” is sort of hilariously non-current.)

38. BEHorn said:

    October 28th, 2009 at 12:29 pm

    Hornmatic – Tebow’s a great college football player. The two main themes of these thread are (1) He is not the greatest ever, and (2) He is not the equal of Vince v.2005.

    (Notice, though, that I capitalized the “H” in “He” when referring to the Tebow, just to stay consistent with the secondary theme of scorn and derision for St. Tebow’s media-driven canonization.)

39. BrickHorn said:

    October 28th, 2009 at 12:30 pm

    (Sorry – I don’t necessarily disagree with your point, but the notion of a “Hollywood formula” involving “white kids” is sort of hilariously non-current.)

    That’s precisely the point. The media is mired in the past, yearning for the leather helmet era. They haven’t caught up to modern Hollywood. That will be left to the next generation, who will remember when black guys dominated college football before the Samoans or Tongans or super-intelligent Japanese androids took over.

40. TebowShmebow said:

    October 28th, 2009 at 12:54 pm

    Tim Tebow is the Ron Dayne of the quarterback position

41. magnusbleuveigner said:

    October 28th, 2009 at 12:55 pm

    Wow we’ve got some race baiters out today.

    As stated earlier and logically, VY lost to Reggie Bush.

    Tebow over McFadden could have gone either way. Just as Charles Woodson over Peyton Manning (and Ryan Leaf for that matter). McFadden was runner-up the year before…..to Troy Smith.

    Who’s the only guy to win it twice? Archie Griffin, a black guy, in the seventies.

    Use race when it’s appropriate, otherwise it loses all validity. We’re not talking about Bobby Bell not being able to play MLB because he’s black.

    By the way, fuck Tebow, but it’s not his fault he beat out Mcfadden. He had a shit load of td’s that year.

42. ctex80 said:

    October 28th, 2009 at 1:06 pm

    I don’t blame Tebow for winning it, I blame Meyer’s system. The QB as FB offense led to a shit ton of goalline TD’s for Tebow in 2007. I’d love to see the average yardage on a Tebow TD vs Vince in 2005. Texas had 4 different players with 10+ rushing TD’s in 2005. If Mack had tried to pad Vince’s numbers that year, it would have put every other college football player to shame. Instead, Henry Melton had 10 TD’s.

43. SausageFest said:

    October 28th, 2009 at 1:06 pm

    Also tim tebow is a virgin, VY invented sex.

    VERY underrated post.

44. ghostofagroundgame said:

    October 28th, 2009 at 1:06 pm

    magnus –

    you misunderstand. I’m no saying VY didn’t win the Heisman because he was black. I’m saying he is not usually compared favorably to Tebow and Tebow is treated differently by the meda because Tebow is white. Different race-based stances, but i believe the disparate treatment is, in part, based on race.

45. magnusbleuveigner said:

    October 28th, 2009 at 1:07 pm

    “There’s a reason the Heisman has become mainly a QB award…its the last skill position that still has enough white guys to ensure that somewhat with skin lighter than the trophy might win the award every so often.

    Tebow love is all about the whiteness…Western Civ has wanted a white Jesus for well over a thousand years.”

    You’re a fucking idiot. QB is the most important position on the field regardless of the color of the person playing it. The job is too pressure packed for a HC to go hhhmmm, I’ve got this VY kid, but Mock just looks the part. If anything, coaches are guilty of trying to turn athletes into qb’s when they shouldn’t.

    Tebow love is all about the winning, just like Jeter love.

46. Lord Tebus said:

    October 28th, 2009 at 1:12 pm

    Children! Children! Why have you forsaken me? Why have you turned from my light to tread in the paths of darkness?

    Don’t you know that it doesn’t matter that Urban gives me 90% of the carries in this offense? Don’t you know that it doesn’t matter that I only average 2 yards a carry? Don’t you know that it doesn’t matter that Urban constantly lets me run the ball at the goal line to pad my TD stats? All that matters is that I AM the Chosen One who is to guide you all to the promised land. For Whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Those dead, who believed in mine glory, shall be raised and live, and those living who believe, shall never perish. Death will only be a change to a better existence. An existence where we worship me as the greatest quarterback of all-time, while heaping roses at my feet and anointing mine head with oil.

    So I say again unto you: Turn back sinners! Renounce your evil ways of logic, reason, and fairness. Come unto my bosom and suckle at my teats, from which flow the goodness and righteousness of the white All-American archetype, wrapped in Hollywood fantasy. Quit your evil worship of the Young and return to the fold. For out in the darkness there will be much weeping and gnashing of teeth for those who refuse to accept mine countenance as Divine and mine power as Almighty.

    Amen!

47. SpiralOut said:

    October 28th, 2009 at 1:21 pm

    It’s pretty obvious that Tebow’s mythos stems from his looks, yes, but mainly from Urban Meyer’s craftiness as a coach.

    Did the Gators really need Tebow to come in during games in 2006 and throw jump passes at the goal line? Absolutely not. However, it provided Meyer a way to get his star recruit into the spot-light early. Now, if you ask most casual football fans which QB won the title for the Gators in ‘06, they’d tell you Tebow and wouldn’t have a clue as to who Chris Leak was.

    The next season, Meyer’s team sucked. However, he did the smart thing and gave the ball to Timmy all the freaking time. 23 rushing TDs for Tebow in ‘07, of which, 20 were of 3 yards or less probably. I’m sure if Mack had wanted to, he could have let Colt rush the ball in every single time in the red zone like Urban does with Tebow. However, Mack is classy and spreads the ball around. Meyer basically manufactured Tebow’s Heisman by completely ignoring all the other players on the team.

    Last year, Tebow was the 3rd best player on his offense behind Percy Harvin and Louis Murphy. Everyone is starting to figure that out now that Tim has trouble cracking 200 yards passing and is only averaging 2 yards a carry. However, by this point, it’s too late. The media has already sunk their teeth into his mythical persona (that he happily plays up for them) and they can’t let go.

    And if we want to be honest, Meyer sneakily weaseled his way into the title game last year, too. He lost to a 3-4 loss football team AT HOME. Texas lost on the road to a Top 10 team and Oklahoma lost to Texas at a neutral site. However, Urban had the feel good story of Timmy to fall back on. And he made sure to cover his ass after that one loss by sending Jesusbow out there to act like a prima-donna bitch in front of the media talking about how “nobody will work as hard as us” blah blah blah. Could you ever picture Colt pulling that kind of stunt? Hell, Colt and Sam BOTH could have said the same thing after their respective losses and it would have come just as true. However, both those kids have some class.

    In short: Fuck Meyer. Fuck Tebow. Fuck Florida. Fuck this shitty media driven fantasy world we live in.

48. magnusbleuveigner said:

    October 28th, 2009 at 1:26 pm

    Yes, and Larry Bird was more revered than Michael Jordan because he was the white All-American archetype. I’ll never forget when Larry really wrapped himself in Hollywood fantasy and made Space Jam. Remember how the media gave Larry a free pass on his gambling?

    Everything is about race to a big percentage of this country. What’s with the guilt?

49. ctex80 said:

    October 28th, 2009 at 2:17 pm

    Magnus,

    “Everything is about race to a big percentage of this country. What’s with the guilt?”

    Not everything is. At the same time, some things are. The discerning minds among us can tell the difference, but it’s just as ignorant to say that race is never a factor as it is to say that it always is.

    Tebow deserved his Heisman, because his numbers were astronomical. There is no great white conspiracy. However, anyone who thinks that Vince wouldn’t have been treated differently had he been white is kidding themselves.

50. uthookem said:

    October 28th, 2009 at 2:19 pm

    Halleluja – In short: Fuck Meyer. Fuck Tebow. Fuck Florida. Fuck this shitty media driven fantasy world we live in.

    Double Halleluja – Everything is about race to a big percentage of this country. What’s with the guilt?

    A raceless society would be wonderful, and many folks would like to see it happen, but it is not possible, and it is a shame.

51. magnusbleuveigner said:

    October 28th, 2009 at 2:39 pm

    “Not everything is. At the same time, some things are. The discerning minds among us can tell the difference, but it’s just as ignorant to say that race is never a factor as it is to say that it always is. ”

    I never said that race isn’t ever a factor. I always thought that Joe Dimaggio being called the greatest living player was a huge pile of racially motivated crap. A huge slap in the face to Willie Mays, and Hank Aaron. What I said is, it’s important to be accurate.

    My thoughts on race are deep rooted beliefs that I’ve had because of a rather unique upbringing. Accuracy and consistency are the keys to getting past it. Along with societal accountability. People are way too quick to pull out the card. It’s sole purpose these days is for one side to propagate a position that is self-serving.. It sickens me.

    Anyway, back to UT football.

    VY was twice the collegiate qb, we all know that. Can you see Tebow converting on 4th and 18 against KU? Only if the field was water.

52. CrazyJoeDavola said:

    October 28th, 2009 at 3:16 pm

    “Can you see Tebow converting on 4th and 18 against KU?”

    If an SEC refereeing crew was involved, yes. Yes I could.

    (Cue KU fans and Mark Mangino to rush in and scream: “B … C … S”)

    I can only imagine the shenanigans that will occur among the officiating crew should Florida make it to the MNC game.

53. ctex80 said:

    October 28th, 2009 at 3:21 pm

    Magnus,

    Fair enough. I guess I’m just annoyed by players of the “[insert opponent here] is playing the race card” card, if that makes sense. As always, shades of gray prevail.

54. magnusbleuveigner said:

    October 28th, 2009 at 3:30 pm

    ctex,

    One of the reasons that I don’t like the Mannings is because Archie wanted a recount after 1st prized son Peyton lost to Charles Woodson. Remember how revered Peyton was? He was everyones All-American. A lock to go number 1 (or 2, there was talk of Leaf). He lost to a db from Fremont Ohio with significant less fanfare. Thus ended the race debate concerning the Heisman voting.

55. ctex80 said:

    October 28th, 2009 at 3:49 pm

    I agree, there is not a pattern of racism w/ the Heisman. If anything, the bias is much more regional and positional than it is racial.

    What bothers me is shit like Vince’s Wonderlic. No one would have said boo about it had he been a white QB.

56. TaylorTRoom said:

    October 28th, 2009 at 5:19 pm

    Shouldn’t the SEC’s internet monitoring computer have flagged this by now? Is it down? Where are the SEC-homers to tell us we’re wrong?

57. BatesHorn said:

    October 28th, 2009 at 5:28 pm

    For all the silly Bucky Richardson business, I STILL fail to see a difference between Eric Crouch and Tim Tebow, beyond better PR.

58. SKiNny G said:

    October 28th, 2009 at 6:19 pm

    I had to make sure this wasn’t texags I logged onto. I come to this site because usually, you guys have a lot of interesting, witty and insightful posts.

    It’s quite obvious you guys have Tebow cock-envy. From an objective point of view, I think Vince was probably a better QB than Tebow. But it’s so close, and so many would disagree that you have to slam the kid. For what it’s worth, the two QBs ARE a lot alike, for a reason no one has mentioned yet- they both grab their entire team and coaching staff by the sack and will them to victories, especially in clutch situations. Both have larger personalties than the rest of their team combined. I always thought Young was the most influential leader of any player I saw.

    The fact they are big, dual-threat type guys is irrelevant. Their games are strikingly different. Do yourselves a fsvor and stop reading into the tea leaves so far that you take things like racism and conspiracies by Urban Meyer to win the Heisman for his player (gasp!) from this.

    You’re better than that, Barking Carnival.

59. Ricky said:

    October 28th, 2009 at 6:36 pm

    magnus, this is Barking Fucking Carnival! You need to lighten up or else you look like the fucking idiot! This site would become unreadable if everyone had ‘/snark’ to make sure someone’s pussy didn’t get hurt.

60. BrickHorn said:

    October 28th, 2009 at 7:28 pm

    For what it’s worth, the two QBs ARE a lot alike, for a reason no one has mentioned yet- they both grab their entire team and coaching staff by the sack and will them to victories, especially in clutch situations.

    Well, you’re half right.

    Look, Tebow’s a good player. No one denies that. But to compare him to Vince Young is like comparing Wade Boggs to Babe Ruth. One is a pretty damned good player. The other was transcendent. Vince willed the Horns to victory when they were down in the 4th quarter more times than I can remember. Tebow really hasn’t done that. I’m sure someone here can fill in the details on total 4th quarter comebacks marshaled by each player, but as I recall the “clutchiness” comparison really isn’t close. And neither are the objective stats. Vince was a slightly better passer and a much, much better runner. And he wasn’t a cheesy publicity hound.

    Regarding the Eric Crouch comparison, I can think of one important difference: approximately 2 yards per carry. And, to be fair, Tebow is a far more accomplished passer than Crouch (by around 30 points on pass efficiency rating). Maybe Scott Frost would be a better comparison, although I don’t have access to his stats.

61. BatesHorn said:

    October 28th, 2009 at 7:57 pm

    I thought of Scott Frost, but he didn’t have the heisman to show for his efforts. And that’s the point about Crouch: He had the personal hardware and a much smaller “clutchy” factor like Tebow, but an objective analysis would show he was probably over rated. He’s mostly given credit for running the 98 team, which arguably was the best team of the year by season’s end, and also the last highwater mark for Nebraska.

    As running qb’s go, it’s hard to put Tebow in front of Tommy Frazier, much less Vince Young, who was so much more than a running qb.

62. NY Horn said:

    October 28th, 2009 at 9:08 pm

    VY is just a 1000x more explosive athlete than Timmy. I don’t think Tebow could take it to the house from 80 yards out in junior high, much less in college. Another difference people don’t often talk about is that Tebow benefits greatly from Meyer’s spread-option offense. His offense, as long as it’s stocked by the correct players, does an excellent job of keeping defenses off balance. VY was great in spite of his OC. Shit, in 2005 we pretty much had 3 plays for him. It was an insanely basic and primitive offense, but it didn’t matter because he was so good at what he did. Imagine sticking Tebow on that 2005 Texas team or putting Vince on Florida’s 2009 team.

    Florida has had some great teams with Tebow, but neither the 2006 or 2008 team have a prayer against UT’s 2005 team or USC’s 04/05 teams, not even mentioning Miami in 2001. Florida has done it with excellent defense and an offensive system that breathed life into a conference whose offenses resembled early 1980’s Texas teams. Neither team went undefeated and both squared off against great but not elite teams in the MNC.

    I really hope we get to play Florida and Tebow wins his second Heisman in the process. The MNC game would be the biggest stage for a player that college football has ever seen. If he were to win everyone in the media would instantly proclaim as the greatest football player of all time. The hype would be out of this world. If we could beat them and make Tebow look a fool in the process, it would be massively anti-climatic for sports media.

    I would love it.

63. UT wildcatter said:

    October 28th, 2009 at 10:13 pm

    that one gator girl with her eyes closed touching TJesus in the picture will live to be 137. Just like Tom Hanks’ character in the the Green Mile after touching Big John Talley

64. PrimeTime said:

    October 29th, 2009 at 12:52 am

    All Tebow is is a glorified full back nothing more nothing less. When you think of Tebow what is his single defining play? The jump pass, “The Promise,” Having mud/paint/blood on his face. That is really all you need to know about how good Tebow is. Now what is VY’s defining play/moment at UT? 4th and 18, the pump fake against Okie Lite, the TD pass to Lime Time, the list goes on. Vince was only on one national title contender in his three years at quarterback and generally was not finished until his junior year and he triples any defining moments that Tebow has in his four years, even though, Tebow has been the center of attention since he was a freshman and has been on national title contenders three out of four years. Its the system stupid and the team. Put Tebow on any other and you will see a quarterback with an average arm, slow release, poor decision making and zero explosiveness.

    Don’t get me wrong I think Tebow is a great player, but to say he is the greatest player of all time is just ludicrous. In my opinion, in order to be considered the greatest player ever you have to transcend the sport and when people watch you play they know they are watching a man amongst boys. Do you get the feeling you are watching something special when you watch Tebow? No. I got that feeling watching Adrian Peterson, Ricky Williams, Vince Young, Reggie Bush, Peyton Manning, Larry Fitzgerald, Matt Leinart, etc.

    One commenter made the perfect analogy in comparing Tebow to Ron Dayne. Dayne is the all time leader in career rushing yards in NCAA history, but does anybody consider him to be one of the top 10 running backs much less players in college football history? Dayne was a good player who ran behind a massive offensive line and who dominated against average opponents.

65. p said:

    October 29th, 2009 at 1:08 am

    Vince Young was the best college football player that I have ever seen…………………period!

    I remember when he trotted out onto the field against NMSU in 2003. I had been waiting to see how this kid would look, and lo and behold if he didn’t deliver. 2 TDs, and 5 carries for 61 yards later……. I was impressed.

    Fast forward to now. The uninformed never seem to get it. Vince Young was a far better passer than Tebow, not just runner.

    Look at all the big games he had in his senior year. Combine all the games vs ranked opponents, OU, the NC game, and you will find an alarming statistic that the MEDIA will always overlook.

    Vince Young was 113-164 for 1546 yards in the games vs ranked opponents, OU, the big12 CC game, and USC. For those too lazy to do the math, that’s 69% passing. Vince finished the year with a 65% completion percentage, so what does that tell you??????

    It tells me that Vincent Paul Young became a better passer when he played his best opponents. He was 75% passing vs USC. The kid was just nails all the time. All of us were nervous going into the big12 CG. It looked like 2001 on paper waiting to happen. What does Vince do? He completes 82% of his passes on route to a blowout of epic proportions!

    That is what made Vince Young FAR superior. In his biggest games, he had his best statistical games too. He just rose to the occasion.

66. p said:

    October 29th, 2009 at 1:09 am

    I meant junior year……………. it’s late= forgiveness

67. milksteak said:

    October 29th, 2009 at 6:02 am

    If you haven’t seen any of ESPN’s 30 for 30 movies yet, I strongly suggest you watch at least one of them. And if you do, I suggest you watch the one on the Muhammad Ali and Larry Holmes fight. Larry Holmes says something along the lines of “I beat Ali but I’m not as famous as he was because I don’t talk too good.” That seems to be the (wildly hyperbolic) case here a little bit, although Timmy is by no means the Ali of football.

68. huge said:

    October 29th, 2009 at 10:18 am

    no one was worried about that big 12 championship game btw

69. fightingterrorismsince1492 said:

    October 29th, 2009 at 11:01 am

    …tim tebow is the illegitimate son of Clipper Cooper….sorry Brooke……’ol Clipster met an ex-Olympic high jumper from East Germany when he was 12 years old and was attending a forum in Berlin with his parents that was focused on the reopening of the welded shut vaginas of those poor women from the eastern bloc……the clipster had just learned about the art of masturbation…..one of those he/she’s was standing entirely too close….it went off in his hand….the rest is history…..

70. Ag_in_TX said:

    October 29th, 2009 at 11:43 am

    Just received a fantasy football notice that young Mr. Young IS starting this weekend for Tennessee.

71. uthookem said:

    October 29th, 2009 at 12:24 pm

    First play – naked bootleg for Vince with no blockers.

    Second play – naked bootleg for Vince with no blockers.

    Third play – naked bootleg for Vince with no blockers.

    Fourth play – Punt (if Vince hasn’t thrown a pick that bounced off one of his receivers prior to play #4).

72. magnusbleuveigner said:

    October 29th, 2009 at 1:23 pm

    “that one gator girl with her eyes closed touching TJesus in the picture will live to be 137. Just like Tom Hanks’ character in the the Green Mile after touching Big John Talley”

    “John Coffee, like the drink sir.”

73. magnusbleuveigner said:

    October 29th, 2009 at 1:35 pm

    “There’s a reason the Heisman has become mainly a QB award…its the last skill position that still has enough white guys to ensure that somewhat with skin lighter than the trophy might win the award every so often.”

    Yeah, I need to lighten up. All ridiculous commentary shall go by the wayside because this is Barking Carnival. Is this site based on humor? Yes, but if you want to make ridiculous statements like the one above, I’m going to feel free to call you out. Look at my fucking name dipshit. Does it look like I’m normally serious?

74. o_state_engr said:

    October 30th, 2009 at 6:35 am

    You forgot the most glaring difference… Tebow has a 3.66 GPA :)

75. mikecrabtree said:

    October 30th, 2009 at 8:44 am

    I think another huge difference is that most of you are UT fans. Before you freak out and talk about Vince Young being Babe Ruth or whatever, just pause for a second and think about how Florida fans probably feel about Tebow…..You think VY is transcendent because he helped your school win the NC, be serious with yourself. I honestly don’t think either Tebow or VY are/were that amazing. Tebow has more heart/intelligence and Young had more skill, but both are great because of their abilities to help their teams WIN. We wouldn’t be talking about this if both UT and UF didn’t have 35 other 4 and 5 star recruits on the team. Let’s face it, no one won the NC by themselves.

    The whole race card is ridiculous, I’m not even sure Rev Al Sharpton would have pulled it that quickly….ok, fine, yes he would….bad example

76. Bob in Houston said:

    October 30th, 2009 at 1:16 pm

    Maybe so, Mike, but we started with the stats. Vince’s are demonstrably better.

77. Huckleberry said:

    October 30th, 2009 at 3:02 pm

    I think another huge difference is that most of you are UT fans. Before you freak out and talk about Vince Young being Babe Ruth or whatever, just pause for a second and think about how Florida fans probably feel about Tebow…..You think VY is transcendent because he helped your school win the NC, be serious with yourself. I honestly don’t think either Tebow or VY are/were that amazing. Tebow has more heart/intelligence and Young had more skill, but both are great because of their abilities to help their teams WIN. We wouldn’t be talking about this if both UT and UF didn’t have 35 other 4 and 5 star recruits on the team. Let’s face it, no one won the NC by themselves.

    That might be a good point if Florida didn’t win the national championship with Tebow as an afterthought fullback in 2006 while Texas went 10-3 the year before Vince took over as the full-time starter and 10-3 the two years after he left.

    Vince not full-time starter: 11-2
    Vince not full-time starter: 10-3
    Vince full-time starter: 11-1
    Vince full-time starter: 13-0
    Vince not full-time starter: 10-3
    Vince not full-time starter: 10-3

    That’s a reasonable timeframe to look at because you have two full classes that had two years with the QB and two years without him. The first class went 21-5 without him (0.808) and 24-1 with him (0.960). The second class went 24-1 with him (0.960) and 20-6 without him (0.769).

    Tebow not full-time starter: 9-3
    Tebow not full-time starter: 13-1
    Tebow full-time starter: 9-4
    Tebow full-time starter: 13-1
    Tebow full-time starter: 7-0

    So far we only have data for one class. That class went 22-4 (0.846) without Tebow as the starter and 22-5 (0.815) with him.

    Yes, that leaves a lot of variables out, including the strength of each QB’s respective class, which of course is a large contributing factor. But it’s not like Tebow’s Florida class was terrible. They were easily one of the Top 5 classes and almost unanimously Top 2. Vince’s was also great, of course, so that factor is a wash.

78. ghostofagroundgame said:

    October 30th, 2009 at 3:24 pm

    Magnus –

    I don’t think race plays much of a role with the Heisman. I DO think it plays some role in the size of the collective sports media boner for Tebow, as versus the much smaller boner that popped up for VY.

    I get your point, overall.

79. magnusbleuveigner said:

    October 30th, 2009 at 3:59 pm

    Media Boner for VY = Rocco Siffredi
    Media Boner for Tebow = Mandingo

    Look, I think there should have been much more media adoration towards VY than there was, but I’m not sure it was race driven. The media, in their haste to annoint greatness status on something were too blinded by the ‘05 USC team led by Reggie Bush. I never understood why that Heisman race was considered over with after Reggie ran all over Fresno St. The media annointed him the winner and spent all their time on Bush/USC.
    The media falls in love, annoints something and the blind masses accept it as gospel.

    Let’s revisit the topic if Colt and UT go on to play Tebow and UF. I think the vast majority of media attention will still be on Tebow, even if Colt wins the Heisman thus rendering the whole question of race moot. I’m not condoning the medias foolishness. By all means it’s a conglomeration of absolute idiots, I just don’t think race plays a part in it on the whole.

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