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Posted by Scipio Tex on April 23rd, 2009 under Uncategorized
The Deadliest Warrior is a new series on Spike and it’s excellent guilty pleasure guy fare. Morning stars crashing into human replica gel-filled dummy heads, katanas slicing pig carcasses in half, and interesting, often ludicrous – occasionally hilarious – match-ups soberly presided over by bio-engineers, ER doctors, paramedics, and IT geeks with computer simulation models.
Needless to say, this show is what Trips Right and I would produce if given an unlimited budget, cameras, a warehouse, and a desire to settle our eternal “Could Margaret Thatcher defeat Benazir Bhutto?” in hand-to-hand combat debate.
The basic premise is this: various great warriors of history (and this is amusingly debatable as you’ll soon see) face off against each other in a wooded meadow in a fight to the death. Tactics, strategy, armor, and armament are all assessed through a combination of thoughtful simulation and wild ass guessing. They then run computer simulations 1,000 times to determine the victor, followed by two fighters acting out the scene. We have, to date, seen battles between the following:
Apache vs. Gladiator (Apache wins, surprisingly)
Samurai vs. Viking (Samurai by a nose)
Spartan vs. Ninja (Bronze Age Spartan in a rout, Ninja fantasists pout)
The demonstrators are probably the most impressive part of the show as these are all guys who have spent a lifetime practicing these weapons and it gives you a certain measure of respect for the crude destructive power of swords, bows, and axes when wielded by a skilled practitioner. In that sense, it makes military history come alive. I was fairly impressed when one of tne of the samurai bowmen called out various shots before the arrow left the string in a bored monotone as each hit exactly where he aimed: Left eye, thwack! Right eye, thwack! Heart, thwack! Deltoid of sword hand, thwack! Good stuff.
And coming up in future episodes are (folks, I’m not shitting you, I swear):
Pirate vs Knight

Arrrrrrrrr! Gunpowder versus gallantry. Lancelot takes on Jack Sparrow in a duel to the death…or – in the pirate’s case – the rape. Let me suggest that if the pirate doesn’t get the knight with his first shot, he’s in a world of hurt. Just wait, this gets better…
Mafiosi vs. Yakuza

Can’t wait to see this epic warrior confrontation. In this corner: a heavily inked Japanese man with no pinky fingers and difficulty gaining access to firearms, highly skilled in beating up Korean prostitutes! In that corner: a morbidly obese Italian from Newark wearing a track suit, skilled at harassing deli owners and infiltrating union leadership. Riveting.
Maori vs. Shaolin Monks

I salute the randomness of this pairing – I just find it amusing. Though I mock neither. The Maori are undoubtedly fierce bastards and the Shaolin Monks will wow us with Drunken Angry Monkey and Recalcitrant Bumblebee. At least we’ll get to see a haka from a pissed off Junior Seau prototype and a Jackie Chan clone making a spear dance.
Shaka Zulu vs William Wallace

I’m not sure why they pick specific people here rather than Zulu vs Highlander, but it should make for great fun. The Zulu may win the fight, but the Scotsman will do it cheaper. Though I’m not liking a hide shield against a broadsword. And what about the fireballs from his arse?
Taliban vs. IRA

(I’m shaking my head and laughing )
Boy, there’s a proud warrrior tradition for you.
Let’s get this straight: little Tommy O’Shaughnessy, unstable little bastard, fresh off of Shankill Road and the council estates attempts to knee cap Mustafa Ala-Aziz, illiterate Islamic Fundamentalist and mule fornicator. That should be a great matchup. The IRA man sets up a car bomb on the Taliban’s donkey while the Taliban guy sets up an IED in the local pub under a Guinness. Both wait for seventeen hours. Bored, the IRA man tries to flush out the Taliban guy with a fat weepy Catholic girl parading around with open ankle while the Taliban guy clinks whiskey glasses together to form an Irishman’s mating call. Good television.
I mocked some of these matchups, but I’ll watch them.
I’m not sure if you guys have seen it, but if not – take a look.
If you have, let me know what you think about it.
What do you think of the show? What warriors are missing?
Minnesotahorn said:
April 23rd, 2009 at 5:47 pm
“Shaolin Monks will wow us with Drunken Angry Monkey and Recalcitrant Bumblebee.”
Oh nicely done, as is the rest of this. I’ll certainly have to check out the show.
I eagerly await Vampire Hooligan vs. Space Cowboy.
Clek said:
April 23rd, 2009 at 5:51 pm
Like alot of people, I don’t watch much television or read newspapers. Most of my entertainment comes from the Internet. Anyway, I think the President of Iran or Castro or Blago, Ellen Degeneras(for real) are pretty good warriors. I don’t agree with any of them, I just think they’re pretty good fighters.
Splish Splash said:
April 23rd, 2009 at 6:00 pm
The show seems to have missed the mark a bit if they left out the men who originated the meal known today as mongolian beef. The greatest warrior race ever to hit the face of the world were those itty bitty, illiterate mongolians on their itty bitty, minature ponies. With no sense of military tactics and strategy, those little men spread themselves and their empire out like a raging wild fire and essentially conquered the entire known world, never suffering a loss in doing so. The lives of those nomadic midgets were the true epitome of the phrase: “I came, I saw, I conquered, making Ceasar himself look like a little boy and his over blown victories like mere child’s play in direct comparison.
Probably, the best and most feared warriors have always come from a group of men who had no ability to read or write. There is something about becoming literate that tends to make wimps and wussies out of men. It seems to take the MAN out of a man. So if one can read the above, then it would be sensible not to consider yourself to be a REAL man and to be glad that some over zealous monk managed to teach those nomads how to read and write, turning them essentially into wimps and wussies like the rest of us.
In a world of the world wide web where everyone now knows how to read and write and how to order books from Amazon, there simply are no more warriors left to be found on the face of the world – alot of computer dorks but no genuine warriors. What a trade off this thing we call progress and civilization is? We managed to turn bad ass, REAL MAN Genghis Khan into some geek internet tech, one who has about as much machismo as a 60’s era VW BUG.
Clek said:
April 23rd, 2009 at 6:03 pm
We’re all just wild, wild boys.
Objective Aggie said:
April 23rd, 2009 at 6:10 pm
Air Force Staff Weather Officer versus Army Bath and Laundry Specialist. Settle it once and for all.
Both of these jobs really exist. It’ll be cheap and easy.
Eskimohorn said:
April 23rd, 2009 at 6:19 pm
Coach Knight would embed a folding chair in the back of the head of Leach while he’s passed out drink. It would actually come close to the IRA/Taliban conclusion.
NY Horn said:
April 23rd, 2009 at 6:34 pm
Where’s the 2005 USC Trojans vs the 3rd reich?
Nerd boy said:
April 23rd, 2009 at 6:35 pm
What about Aquaman vs. Prince Namor, the Sub-mariner?
Splish splash, have you read the Conn Iggulden series on Genghis? Historical fiction. I dug the Caesar tetralogy, but only have the first one on G.
Splish Splash said:
April 23rd, 2009 at 7:31 pm
No, I have not. I have been attempting to unlearn how to read and write and get some of my uncivilized balls back. I’ve been smacking myself in the head with hammer in my efforts, but so far, no luck. So quit writing to me and tempting me. You ain’t helping me on this matter.
Ojnab Bob said:
April 23rd, 2009 at 7:53 pm
Splish splash:
I enjoyed your post, and am generally in agreement. You are forgetting Goliath’s Spring, however, where the Islamic world’s last hope, illiterate Mamluke slaves from Asia Minor, Turkestan and elsewhere, defeated the Mongol remnant of Hulagu’s army (and spelt the death knell for the remaining husk of the Crusader states).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Ain_Jalut
Perhaps it is true that the Mongols never lost a battle to a literate enemy, at least… I’ve heard good things about the Iggulden series as well, but have yet to pick them up. Bernard Cornwell’s Saxon stories are a ripping yarn if you have the time (and the Dark Age Wiking inclination).
Nero said:
April 23rd, 2009 at 8:01 pm
“Bored, the IRA man tries to flush out the Taliban guy with a fat weepy Catholic girl parading around with open ankle while the Taliban guy clinks whiskey glasses together to form an Irishman’s mating call.”
That cracked me up. I spent a night in Belfast on my honeymoon, and while at a local pub with a sign outside that said “no football colors allowed”, I sneaked off to the restroom to take a shit and came back to a see a drunken Irishman trying to hit on my wife, working the oh so smooth angle of psychotic fish-monger with wild accent.
Steve Nebraska said:
April 23rd, 2009 at 8:11 pm
Andre the Giant vs. Master Blaster.
Vasherized said:
April 23rd, 2009 at 8:13 pm
Even more riveting would be HenryJames vs CloseToJumping but I can see how they don’t exactly fall in the warrior classification.
I just DVRd the next few episodes, which appear to be late Sunday night. I guess these clandestine battles aren’t quite ready for prime time.
Most importantly, the offseason infotainment missive here at BC is fucking thriving.
Facebook User said:
April 23rd, 2009 at 8:51 pm
Good to know the finest Japanese swords are made in Walnut, CA.
Parlin Hall said:
April 23rd, 2009 at 9:39 pm
The potentially hurtful stereotypes of other peoples and cultures here makes one think that the UN can use a guy like Scipio.
98horn said:
April 24th, 2009 at 6:25 am
Pretty solid show. I’d like to see SAS v. French Foreign Legionnaire. Or Legionnaire vs. random Algerian. Whatever, I’m flexible.
alex said:
April 24th, 2009 at 6:33 am
To say that the Mongols had little or no sense of strategy and tactics is ridiculous. Wherever did you read that?
kevwun said:
April 24th, 2009 at 6:55 am
The missed some of the biggest badasses of history. Just off the top of my head:
Mongols
Roman Legionnaires
Ottoman Janissaries
Macedonians
Mamluks
Swiss Pikemen
Huns
Doperbo said:
April 24th, 2009 at 7:09 am
Didn’t Apache’s have carbines? And which type of gladiator did they line him up against? Heavily armored (murmillo/secutor) or a fairy net guy (retiarus), because it makes a difference.
I’m going to have to check this show out.
Spider said:
April 24th, 2009 at 7:11 am
The greatest warrior race ever to hit the face of the world were those itty bitty, illiterate mongolians on their itty bitty, minature ponies. With no sense of military tactics and strategy
Wha … ? Even the Mongols’ hunting traditions were built around practicing for war, they had a recursive system of unit organization, they promoted officers (almost) strictly according to merit and gave them wide latitude to lead, they protected their command and control network (unlike western armies of the time), deployed spies in Europe a decade before their invasion of Poland, and used religious conversion to trick and divide their enemies.
If not for a timely succession crisis, they would have rolled over western Europe like a Ford Excursion over a Radio Flyer. As for the Mameluks, their victories were anything but assured.
whiskeydent said:
April 24th, 2009 at 7:13 am
I want the French vs the Italians. Who’d surrender first?
nobis60 said:
April 24th, 2009 at 7:14 am
Franchione v. Little Debbie
Ojnab Bob said:
April 24th, 2009 at 7:27 am
Spider, thanks for that article – interesting detail on the Mameluk armies… I definitely buy his thesis on the logistical difficulties the Mongol armies faced West of Mesopotamia.
I think 98% of historians would agree with you that Ogodei’s death saved Western Europe a very nasty ravage. Still, I wonder… the Polish and Russian cities of the 13th century were not as heavily fortified as those in the HRE and France, and it could be that the Mongol siege train wouldn’t have been up to the task of permanently conquering the centers of power. I am surprised we haven’t seen any alternate histories of this…
That said, it is doubtful the ponderous European armies of that period would have won any major battle, and at the least the countryside would have been razed as happened to poor Poland.
As an aside, how tragic is the history of Poland over the last 800 years? Razed and enslaved by Mongol, Teutonic Knight, Russian, Prussian, Austrian, Nazi, Soviet… the Vistula river has seen many sad stories.
Finally, I want to raise my core complaint with the History Channel show: it measures “warriors”, not soldiers, and that is an important difference. The average Celt or German warrior was considerably bigger than his Roman soldier counterpart, and almost certainly would win most single combats. This is an _irrelevant_ point, however – beecause the Romans fought in disciplined formation, working as a team (see Patton’s famous speech), they could triumph over many times their number of superior “warriors”. As you say, the Mongols employed similar military disclipline, with similar results.
Uncle Bevo said:
April 24th, 2009 at 7:28 am
Speaking as a good Irish-American, the IRA would totally kick the Taliban’s ass. People who are eager to die because some idiot tells them it’s what God wants are no match for people who are the greatest drinkers, poets, singers, and fistfighters to ever walk the planet.
Hook ‘em.
Spider said:
April 24th, 2009 at 7:37 am
Ojnab Bob:
Actually, the fight in Poland included armies from western Europe. They lost, but the Mongol’s victory was very costly.
As for fortifications, Liegnitz was in 1241 and Ain Jalut was 1258. Western European fortifications were still in a mixed stage of stone and timber palisade at this point, often painting the wood so that you couldn’t tell it from stone. The Mongols, furthermore, stole siege engine technology as they went along, so it’s not like they couldn’t show up with a trebuchet.
The problem with this show is that it’s putting assassins up against single-combat warriors up against formation fighters. It’s good silly fun.
I’d rather see a Birmingham United hoodlum full of lager against an interglacial-period Neanderthal hopped up on fly agaric.
Ojnab Bob said:
April 24th, 2009 at 7:45 am
That sounds like a good matchup, Spider! I propose some other interesting matchups, like an outside linebacker against a basketball power forward.
By the Mongolian invasion, Western European fortification practices actually were pretty well developed, at least in spots. Look at Krak Des Chevaliers in Syria – a magnificent castle, and one completed by the mid-13th century.
Liegnitz only included a smattering of German knights and miners in the Western army; as you say, the Mongols paid for it. I think I am in the minority when I say that a surprising replay of the German victory at Lechfeld could have been in the offing if the Mongols had pushed farther west… sort of like ‘95 Nebraska surprising ‘95 Florida with the punishing ground game. Get the Mongols into the right terrain with a river at their back, and German heavy infantry/cavalry could have laid ‘em an Osborne-like whooping.
BrickHorn said:
April 24th, 2009 at 8:12 am
Interesting discussion. The Mongols were the most dominant empire in the history of our violent species. That they achieved such military success as a pack of wandering nomads battling stable, agrarian, specialized societies makes it all the more impressive.
Stuck in MN said:
April 24th, 2009 at 9:00 am
The outside linebacker kills the power forward, using his higher level of aggression to overcome his opponent’s superior reach.
As far as sport matchups, I’d also pay to see women’s tennis vs. men’s figure skating, or LPGA vs. men’s soccer. Too close to call, but the battles would be legendary.
RomaVicta said:
April 24th, 2009 at 10:37 am
Real Army (West Point) vs Fake Army (you know who)
Scipio Tex said:
April 24th, 2009 at 10:39 am
Good correction/discussion on the Mongols above. I thought they were the most obvious omission from the show. They were the most tactically and militarily sophisticated people on the planet in their day. And in many respects more “enlightened” than several of the empires they opposed.
I think they were omitted from the show primarily because a horse-archer evading another warrior and filling him with arrows probably doesn’t make for very good television.
Steve Nebraska said:
April 24th, 2009 at 10:47 am
Perhaps the Mongols were omitted because their deadliness came from being expert horse archers. Perhaps a horse would be an unfair advantage.
Scipio Tex said:
April 24th, 2009 at 10:57 am
Doperbo:
They did kind of a Gladiator cross section. And they used pre-carbine Apaches. It was probably their worst re-enactment.
kevwun:
Good list, there.
As someone pointed out above, because the show emphasizes individual warriors rather than how they functioned as a unit, several of the most powerful warrior-cultures are devalued. A Swiss Pikeman in one-on-one combat is pretty weak, but put him in a group and he gets formidable quickly. Same for the Macedonians with their sarissas.
Another obvious group that is missing is Aztec. But since many of their weapons were designed for capture and subduing an opponent, they would haven’t fared very well; not to mention a lack of steel-age technology.
Other omissions that leap to mind would be 13th century English bowmen and Byzantine Cataphracts.
Scipio Tex said:
April 24th, 2009 at 10:59 am
Steve:
The Knight is mounted on the next episode so I dunno.
Facebook User said:
April 24th, 2009 at 11:00 am
Sexy.
Catherine the Great said:
April 24th, 2009 at 11:04 am
“Perhaps a horse would be an unfair advantage.”
*
Steve Nebraska said:
April 24th, 2009 at 11:14 am
True, but as you alluded to, the Mongols pretty much stayed at a distance as horse archers, where as the Knight still had to be in close.
I’d have the Mongol taking on Numidian cavalry, or maybe an Egyptian Chariot.
Dave said:
April 24th, 2009 at 11:27 am
Uh…did the ninja flip off of the 1-foot tall log? That didn’t seem like a sound tactical move to me.
kevwun said:
April 24th, 2009 at 11:27 am
Scipio, that’s also true of the Spartans but they made it on the show thanks to 2 hours of slow motion shots and oiled up six packs.
Chooky said:
April 24th, 2009 at 12:05 pm
This thread is fascinating.
I can’t believe the Comanche hasn’t been mentioned.
What about Publius Scipio vs Hannibal in man to man combat? I’m leaning toward Hannibal based solely on bench press.
Scipio Tex said:
April 24th, 2009 at 12:09 pm
kevwun:
Agreed. The Spartans were best as a unit in phalanx warfare, though they were pretty formidable individually as well. I remember reading that their daily drill was sort of like football practice – they spent half their day in unit drills, half in individual drills.
Doperbo:
They’re only going to pick one variety of American Plains Indian.
Ohio State - Miami Pass Interference Call said:
April 24th, 2009 at 12:18 pm
Oh Snap. Did I just get mistaken for Chooky?
It is so on. Where are my shurikens.
Doperbo said:
April 24th, 2009 at 12:19 pm
Damn autopopulate software.
Scipio Tex said:
April 24th, 2009 at 12:22 pm
It’s an easy mistake. One of you heals the sick, the other wears sick heels.
kevwun said:
April 24th, 2009 at 12:25 pm
Doperbo, you asked about the type of gladiator they used. They mixed and matched weapons and armor from the various types. They used the Secutores helmet and the Retiarri net. They also had a half moon blade that was worn over the hand like a pirate hook. They referred to it as a scissores, but it doesn’t match the descriptions I’ve found online which say that it was a two bladed sword in the shape of scissors minus the hinge.
kevwun said:
April 24th, 2009 at 12:31 pm
On a second look, it was probably a Murmillo helmet instead.
Chooky said:
April 24th, 2009 at 12:34 pm
I’m a Nine West man. 11 1/2.
Spider said:
April 24th, 2009 at 12:42 pm
I think they were omitted from the show primarily because a horse-archer evading another warrior and filling him with arrows probably doesn’t make for very good television.
… unless the warrior in question is Michael Bennett.
Scipio Tex said:
April 24th, 2009 at 1:03 pm
or Michael Flatley
exuLt said:
April 24th, 2009 at 2:33 pm
Unusually inspired, even for you. Funniest photochop I seen in awhile. You’ve been sitting on it, haven’t you?
Hutus vs. Khmer Rouge
Dachau guard vs. VC Mauist
Scarran vs. Riddick
Mothra vs. Godzilla oh, wait…
Vasherized said:
April 24th, 2009 at 3:07 pm
Clearly this crowd loves its mythical simulations of violence and each has his favorite.
Your Punjabi swordswoman would NEVVVERRR have a chance against my Night Ranger Special Forces Black Ops Invisible Agent of Pain! I’m insulted you’d even think the battle would even last for more than three seconds.
Best line from bitter ninja kid:
I was pretty disappointed but if a ninja saw a spartan in real life he’d just run away, come back and kill him in his sleep.
Nice, the Dwight Schrute approach.
slick willie said:
April 24th, 2009 at 3:34 pm
Interesting that the Russian’s don’t make the cut as among the greatest warriors. If it wasn’t for the miserable weather they have over there, God’s knows how many times their country would have been run over by invaders.
Surprising, cause when you meet the modern Russian of today….well, they happen to scare little ‘ole me. They all seem to be big, buff guys with gruff ‘tudes, ones who seem as if they would tear your living head off your shoulders if you happened to cross them or, even, just accidentally spit in the wrong direction.
Maybe being Russian means that you get really pissed if someone spits the wrong way or etc., but invade their country and the average Russian doesn’t really give a shit and just goes home and gets drunk. Maybe it’s cause they already know, from past experience, that the invaders will freeze to death anyway? Why go to the trouble and all the work of killing someone, when you know they are all going to freeze to death anyway? Yea, maybe that’s it? Philosophically speaking, then one could say that really cold weather is the greatest and the baddest ass warrior ever seen on the planet. I’m sure Napoleon’s men would have no disagreement with this assessment.
Spider said:
April 24th, 2009 at 3:38 pm
Long as you don’t hit any of that prime Irish wivestock in the background, Scip.
coolhorn said:
April 25th, 2009 at 2:09 am
I’m not buying into any tv show that doesn’t feature John Wayne against Quanah Parker. Everybody else is just a girly man.
jonestopten said:
April 25th, 2009 at 5:45 am
Margaret Thatcher would beat Benazir Bhutto to a bloody pulp.
J.R.69 said:
April 25th, 2009 at 9:27 am
Rosie O’Donnel vs Catherine the Great, both mounted.
Stunted Guinea Pig said:
April 25th, 2009 at 10:21 am
The show is obviously sexist. How could they have left out the ancient Amazon queens – you know, the ones who kicked Hercules in the junk.
Given the Spike’s demographic base (young, hungry, desperate, sexually deprived adolescent men), I am surprised the producers of this comedy of errors also made this most bone headed of errors. Imagine how much the ratings would spike (as well as the pants of countless adolescent, young, pea-shooters) if they creatively reenacted an Amazon queen, updated with a modernized set of jugs, trying to valiantly fend off a frontal attack from a hoplite spearman. Or how about a secret ninja intrusion from the rear. Yup, they really missed an opportunity here.
Nero said:
April 26th, 2009 at 11:37 am
Just watched Apache vs Gladiator and have a whole new respect for the american indian warrior. The show left out the Gladiator’s greatest weapon – Disease.
The Apache scared the shit out of me though. Snake Blocker is a bad motherfo.
SeeingRed said:
April 29th, 2009 at 10:20 am
Crip vs. Battlebot
Strip Mall Black Belt vs. Hick on Meth
Small Town Sherriff vs. Gold’s Gym Roid Head
HenryJames said:
April 30th, 2009 at 11:15 am
How about Dusty Dvoracek with a baseball bat against Justin Chaisson with a screwdriver?
Cluedo said:
April 30th, 2009 at 11:55 am
How about Justin Chaisson with a screwdriver in the library?
bomber said:
May 4th, 2009 at 2:56 pm
i would like to see the police vs gangsters good fight but might cause a uprising
via Scipio: Taliban vs. : It Ain’t Gambling said:
May 6th, 2009 at 8:58 am
[...] Scipio: Taliban vs. Posted by Johnnymac | May 6, 2009 11:55 AM Filed Under Uncategorized via Scipio: Taliban vs. [...]
Dave said:
May 11th, 2009 at 6:36 pm
Borg v. Dominion
Martin said:
May 23rd, 2009 at 1:01 pm
who would win a Spartan or a Viking ?
Martin said:
May 23rd, 2009 at 1:01 pm
who would win spartan or viking
AZLonghorn said:
May 24th, 2009 at 12:46 am
“Strip Mall Black Belt vs. Hick on Meth”
That’s funny shit
Sean said:
May 31st, 2009 at 6:11 pm
Whoever wrote this is an idiot. Tommy O’Shaugnessy from the Shankill Road? What are you an idiot, the Shankill Road is the most loyalist road in all of Belfast. You obviously know nothing about northern Ireland you stupid kid.
Brendan said:
July 1st, 2009 at 2:53 pm
Sean says it all, you know fuck all about the Irish troubles and what the IRA could do, and what was done to us, so shut the fuck up, of course the show is stupid.
Emma said:
March 2nd, 2010 at 2:05 am
Are you a North American?
An IRA volunteer is highly unlikely to come from the ‘Shankill’ area of Balfast., it being a loyalist stronghold, try the Falls rd and the republican estates of west Belfst.
Felipe Dario said:
March 2nd, 2010 at 5:09 am
oh, i like japan girls,they arehot.
i like your think