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Movie Talk- “2001: A Space Odyssey”

Posted by TaylorTRoom on April 19th, 2009 under Uncategorized

I was surprised by the amount of feedback on my post about “The Bad Lieutenant”.  Anyone up for more movie talk?  I like to use Ebert’s “Great Movie” list as a DVR guide, and maybe I could post some thoughts on various films.  I feel these kind of posts are worthless without strong opinions, so jump in.  First, the link to Ebert’s review.

I recently watched this again, for the first time since the late ’70s (when I saw it on TV as a 15 year old). I was a huge science fiction fan, and pretty much viewed it no deeper than the basic narrative. I recognized that the science was better (no sound in vacuum, no the artificial gravity was represented realistically, and the station dcking took a reasonable amount of time, instead of the “Star Wars” shorthand version) than its contemporaries in science fiction, and that it was really, really long. I had also heard that the hippies really dug the psychadelic visions in the final half hour that seemed to go on forever. My fresh viewing (on my 2007 purchased HD-DVD player, holla!) gave me a new appreciation.

I never noticed the “tribal war” theme in this story before my recent re-viewing.  I had caught that the ability to use tools (from the alien obelisk) gave the one tribe the ability to overcome (i.e. “kill”) the other. For the first time, I saw the USA/USSR tribal competition aspects. The US has found this artifact on the moon, and rather than share it with the rival tribe (lack of trust and desire to profit alone) it was going to take on this huge mission alone. When I saw the film 30 years ago, I missed this, and I notice Ebert really doesn’t seem to see this in the movie now. In 1978, cooperating with the Russians on something as appropriate as contact with a superior sentient species was still unthinkable.

This theme leads to the major mistake of the Discovery mission. They took an unexpected “rival tribe” along- HAL, the new reasoning computer that they suspected may actually be aware (irony- they thought HAL represented just another tool, the natural end result of the tools used to crush the heads of the rival apeman tribe in the beginning- and not a rival).

Compare and Contrast

Compare and Contrast

Yes, HAL was aware. HAL had been briefed on the mission before the astronauts. The movie doesn’t tell us if HAL guessed the aliens were going to introduce a next step to the sentient beings that made it to Saturn (and wanted to take it himself), or if, as the book explains, he didn’t trust the humans to complete the mission correctly. I suspect the former, mainly because it fits the “tribal war” theme.  Remember, Kubrick and Clarke did not feel compelled to tell the same story in their respective media. I think this viewing makes for a much tenser film- this isn’t a man trying to survive a malfunctiong tool; it’s a man fighting for our species’ survival vs. a rival sentience.

Anyway, it’s a far richer film than I remembered from my 1979 viewing on a 4:3 network broadcast (19″ Magnavox). Most criticisms are about the slow pacing of some scenes, such as the space station docking sequence. I think the modern viewer is spoiled by the shorthand for such scenes created by George Lucas in “Star Wars”.  Instead of a plausible 10 – 15 minutes spent synchronizing momentum and vectors, followed by airlocking, we now expect 5 – 10 seconds of a small craft flying into a seemingly open-to-outer space landing strip with artificial gravity.

An interesting detail is the very understated tones of the conversations on The Dicovery.  I always thought this was due to engineers just not being emotional and exciteable people. Recently, it was suggested to me that the reason for the monotone talk was to make HAL seem more human.

Like all great movies, it ends with some big questions answered, but more questions raised.  Thoughts…

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27 Responses

  1. Uncle Bevo said:

    April 19th, 2009 at 12:58 pm

    I don’t use the word often, but Stanley Kubrick is a genius.

    2001 shows him at the top of his game.

    Hook ‘em.

  2. Horn Brain said:

    April 19th, 2009 at 1:41 pm

    I need to rewatch that, as well. I saw it on TV sometime early in high school, and obviously never looked beyond the space flight sequences. Freakin’ space baby didn’t blow my mind, but only because the whole half-hour prior to that had.

  3. dutchie said:

    April 19th, 2009 at 2:16 pm

    To call Kubrick a genius may actually be an understatement. To put him on the short list of “The greatest of all time”, or simply make him THE LIST, may be more appropriate.

  4. Molise belongs 2 Croatia-NOT Italy said:

    April 19th, 2009 at 2:25 pm

    Its a gray matter, thing..ay..

  5. DJ said:

    April 19th, 2009 at 2:52 pm

    One of my all-time favorites. Curious what your take is on the final sequence. I haven’t read the book so I don’t know how Clarke explains it. Not sure I have any idea what it means, but I always found it inspiring and fascinating, even when sober.
    Oh, and Uncle is right. Kubrick is absolutely a genius. Every film he made was drastically different from the last, and he never made the same movie twice. Amazing to think he made Dr. Strangelove, 2001, and Clockwork right in a row.

  6. TaylorTRoom said:

    April 19th, 2009 at 3:00 pm

    My take on the last scenes? I think the aliens were working on Bowman, plumbing his past, and maybe taking decades to do it. To them, time is as easily traversed as space, so Bowman can observe himself at an advanced age. When they were done, he had leapt as far as the apes had when they touched the obelisk.

  7. DJ said:

    April 19th, 2009 at 3:12 pm

    So do you think the fetus at the end represents his rebirth as an advanced life form? The way the apes eventually evolved into humans, Bowman had evolved into something greater?

  8. Facebook User said:

    April 19th, 2009 at 3:23 pm

    Frakking toasters.

  9. brad said:

    April 19th, 2009 at 3:49 pm

    DJ, you are right on. If you read the novel (and I highly recommend the entire series – 2001, 2010, 2061, and 3001) Bowman definitely evolves into a greater being that is more aware.

  10. Cricketslayer said:

    April 19th, 2009 at 8:57 pm

    One of the best films ever. I get something new and significantly thought-provoking from it after every single viewing.

  11. Big Satan said:

    April 20th, 2009 at 5:02 am

    I never went that way with my interpretation of that film. To me, the Obelisk triggered an advancement in through process evolution in the apes, which was the catalyst for them using tools, and start down the evolutionary path towards humanity as we know it today. I sort of assumed that said Obelisk triggered HAL in a similar manner, taking a step up the evolutionary chain with a small side of homicidal/violent tendencies on the side.

    Then again, I havent seen that movie in about 15 years, and I was only 14 at the time, so I’m sure I missed quite a bit.

  12. Goosehorn said:

    April 20th, 2009 at 6:45 am

    So book and the series of books are good? I’m inrterested now. I loved that movie, and I saw it only for the first time about 6 months ago. I am 35 btw, so i should have seen it before, especially with the trippy stuff.

  13. BEHorn said:

    April 20th, 2009 at 7:01 am

    Kubrick was a genius at a certain kind of movie: Films about ideas.

    When he tried to make films about people or relationships, he was terrible. (Witness “Eyes Wide Shut”.)

  14. Nero said:

    April 20th, 2009 at 7:23 am

    BEHorn –

    Barry Lyndon was a good film that dealt with people. The duel scene was excellent. However, I generally agree with your statement.

  15. Art Vandelay said:

    April 20th, 2009 at 7:29 am

    I believe the monotone talk was a statement that in the future as we become more reliant on technology we become more like the machines we create.

    Also – the name HAL was chosen because each letter in HAL is one letter before IBM….. at least that is what we were told at Big Blue.

  16. Nordberg said:

    April 20th, 2009 at 7:49 am

    2010 sucks ass.

  17. Facebook User said:

    April 20th, 2009 at 8:21 am

    When he tried to make films about people or relationships, he was terrible. (Witness “Eyes Wide Shut”.)

    I felt like there was a section of EWS which was totally gripping. The whole thing didn’t seem to hang together but there was a 45-60 minute part that was amazing.

  18. SeeingRed said:

    April 20th, 2009 at 11:41 am

    You’ve got to knock this shit off. It’s tough enough getting work done as it is. Add movie discussions to this site & I’m toast. Isn’t is it enough just to despise Chase Daniel?

  19. caradoc said:

    April 20th, 2009 at 1:52 pm

    One major theme in 2001 is the relationship between man and tool. The ‘wisdom’ the monolith infused into apeman was the use of the bone as a tool. Now apeman could slay the tapir … and capture territory from lesser apemen. When he throws the bone skyward in victory, it morphs into the spaceship — the tool has evolved with man. And of course our friend HAL9000 is yet another sort of tool. HAL shows that the tool has replaced man, freeing man to evolve to the next level.

  20. Art Vandelay said:

    April 20th, 2009 at 2:02 pm

    All this talk of the HAL9000 on the same day Sun Microsystems is acquired. Coincidence? Maybe TaylorTRoom is actually Scott McNealy and now has more time on his hands.

  21. BEHorn said:

    April 20th, 2009 at 2:38 pm

    Sailor – fair enough, though the problem with a lot of directors who make good/great movies early is that they get a lot of control (up to and including final cut), and no one can (or will) tell them that they need to lose 30 minutes.

    “EWS” had 45-60 amazing minutes? Maybe, but that’s more indictment than praise in a movie that’s 159 minutes long.

  22. Facebook User said:

    April 20th, 2009 at 2:41 pm

    Not disagreeing at all. My only point was that period of the movie was of a quality that few directors ever reach. Even when he’s putting up something that’s too long and doesn’t work cohesively, it’s got some shit in that is masterful.

  23. BEHorn said:

    April 20th, 2009 at 2:45 pm

    The guy was visionary, no doubt.

  24. Texoz said:

    April 20th, 2009 at 2:56 pm

    Going to agree with EWS not being Kubrick’s best effort, but then look at “The Shining,” “Full Metal Jacket,” and “Lolita.”

    There was some decent character development in there. He’s not on the same level as Scorcese for gritty character development, but I think Kubrick’s visionary style overwhelms the human element.

  25. CrazyJoeDavola66 said:

    April 20th, 2009 at 7:12 pm

    When I was younger, I thought of Kubrick as an unassailable genius.

    As I’ve gotten older, though, I’ve found his films to be generally chilly and antiseptic. The technical aspects are pretty much flawless, but I now find his storytelling to be lacking. I don’t think the two are unrelated.

    But I don’t want to get carried away. It’s not like he’s George Fucking Lucas or Michael Goddamn Bay in terms of narrative by any means. Just that I find his stuff a lot less compelling now than I did when I was in college.

    I find “2001″, “Clockwork Orange” and “Dr. Strangelove” to all be overrated in retrospect (note: “overrated” does not = “bad”).

    On the other hand, I think that “Spartacus” and especially “Paths of Glory” to be vastly underrated. Definitely check out the latter for much more salient (and humanistic) views of military travesties than “FMJ” or “Strangelove”.

  26. scagnetti said:

    April 21st, 2009 at 1:38 am

    Manalive…

    I actually got to cath this at the Arclight’s CineramaDome in LA this last fall on 70mm! Word to all y’all’s moms to dat shiiiiitt!

    I think everybody’s right. And kubrick’s the dude that made that possible. Certainly in this film. EWS has it’s own problems, and I blame his OCD work with good/not great actors for that. Same for FMJ. But his shit is interesting, and tell me marty scorsese can/would ever make something as complex as EWS and not fail in some aspect, well then yet lying to yerself.

    My two dudes for the most part are Kubrick and Robert Altman, seemingly totally different, but cared for and crafted their films for the same purpose, IMO, and that was to provoke their audience into thoughts they might not expec to get watching a movie.

    You hear this joke, alot in LA, about the difference in mediums. One guy makes money makin movies and the other dude makes art makin films.

    And I always forget the frakkin movie but I think it’s Bowfinger where The Guy -our hero, who is a movie star – complains he makes movies…

    Those two dudes I mentioned make FILMS man!

    And yeah Barry Lyndon and Paths of Glory are far too unappreciated…

  27. J.R.69 said:

    April 25th, 2009 at 10:18 am

    I had a somewhat different take on the purpose of the monolith. I supposed that the monolith was an “alarm clock” placed here by an alien species to measure the development of life on Earth.

    When the australopithecine touched its surface, the “alarm’ was triggered and the monolith then took up residence buried on the moon….and waited until man had evolved enough to discover it, whereupon it again removed itself to an orbit of Jupiter.

    This was a logical and satisfying sequence to me, and I was

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