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Texas Football & National Recruiting Strategy: Part III

Posted by Scipio Tex on January 21st, 2009 under Football, Recruiting

Mack Brown has been famously nativistic in his recruiting outlook at Texas. Between 2004-2008, Texas took 93.2% of its recruits from in-state with an amazing 71.8 percent of those players hailing from within 200 miles of Austin. Much of that approach is vindicated here and here and of course by our record on the field: a 115-26 record during his tenure.

The question then is not whether our current approach is advisable (it is), but rather is it optimal? Is our good ever getting in the way of great? Is there some low hanging fruit somewhere that we should pluck?

This is a map of the Top 100 Rivals recruits in the country from 2008. If you know some basics about the college football landscape, and/or possess a business/strategic acumen comparable to that of a 4th grader running a lemonade stand, some of those flags should get you thinking.

Although this map only depicts those recruits who are considered elite, you can also be assured that similar distributions exist for the next 200 or so. In short, a goldmine of recruits doesn’t suddenly appear in New Mexico or New Hampshire if you bring this view to a Top 300. Great recruits generally sit right next to good ones. So these dots are good indications of where you should be drilling. Nor was 2008 an anomaly. This is, more or less, how it looks in most years.

Let’s be clear: taking less than 70-80% of our recruits from in-state is mindless adventurism for its own sake or simply an indication that we’re probably getting our ass kicked by someone on our border or internally. I don’t need to hire McKinsey to tell me that. It’s also dangerous to stray far from what you know. OU found this out with a couple of their big national recruiting classes. The Sooners eventually realized that they’d recruited a bunch of guys that weren’t cultural fits, weren’t well scouted, couldn’t take hard coaching, and were generally overrated wanks. Since then, they’ve stuck to their knitting, even if it means taking a 3 star from Dallas that they have copious scouting on over pursuing a Tom Lemming hyped 4 star empty suit from Illinois. You don’t want to get Notre Damed.

Given that OU example and that we’re so fat and happy in-state, why recruit out of state at all?

1. No state produces equal quality at all positions, year in, year out. No, not even Texas. And certainly not Florida. I can recall dry spells in Texas at QB, OL, DL, LB, DB (amazingly), WR, TE in just the last ten years. We’ve also had overall down years. The only in-state solution is to either pray that you can load up the next year (uncertain) which often leads to unbalanced classes. Example: look at our secondary composition over the last two years – who we’ve played, and at what stages in their career. Further, taking the questionable Robert Joseph types is a direct result of unbalanced recruiting, laziness, desperation, and an unwilligness to go out of state at DB during some crucial periods. Need I speak of LB?

2. Finding game changers. Marcus Dupree, Adrian Peterson, Vince Young, any Selmon brother. Everyone knows who they are and getting them in your program is the difference between good and elite.

Go back to the map. Look at the talent distributions. What clump gets your attention? Forget football: let’s pretend we’re running a business and we’re looking for quality markets for our widgets.

Yes, SEC country sure has a lot of flags, but state regional identities are strong, the existing businesses in the key states (Georgia, Florida, LSU, Alabama) are powerful and numerous, they will circumvent fair practice to beat you, pressure from the populace on clients to stay local is profound, and the SEC represents the best football conference in America about to embark on an exclusive TV contract and hypefest on ESPN. These are barriers to entry.

To my amusement and nausea, I have read thoughts on various boards urging us to recruit Florida. These are the same people who look to pick up women in the Engineering wing of a college, look for synagogues and churches in Saudi Arabia, and seek cheap real estate in Monaco. You can pretty much rest assured that they’re assigned the most remedial, least strategic jobs in their companies.

So, back to that map: does your eye keep coming back to California, specifically Southern California? California has more than almost twice our population, a populace that is highly transient with minimal identification to regional college football, and has only three potential football universities: Cal, USC, UCLA. Imagine that. The whole goddamn state. Bring Fresno State to this discussion only at the risk of a slap. The SEC/ACC overlaps at least fifteen legitimate football schools over a comparable population. And only one California school – USC – truly cares about college football. The neighboring California states – their version of our OU or LSU – are non-entities compared to Texas: Arizona, Arizona St, Oregon, Nevada.

So where is it you’d like to compete?

But, but. but…what about USC, Scipio?!?! What about them? USC is one school with scholarship limits. Just like us. And here’s a little secret: for every USC fan in California, you can find another that hates their guts. Let’s do this then: I’ll concede to USC every recruit in California that they want. Now we’re left with only forty guys who will end up in the NFL. Gee, I sure hope we can beat Cal or Arizona for some of their signatures. Or should we go compete with Georgia, Alabama, and Florida for a kid from Jacksonville?

My recommended OOS approach?

1. Stick to the in-state knitting. When the state lacks in an area, look outside.
2. The obvious place to look to explore a need is California.
3. Obviously check out OOS legacies (Kasey Studdard) and any special coaching staff “in”
4. If there’s a game changer somewhere (yes, even SEC country) who expresses a consistent interest in Texas and makes the requisite effort to demonstrate this (camp attendance, unofficials), pursue them.
5. Don’t throw random darts at the national Top 100 or do Dennis Franchione-style scholarship cropduster drops. California is interesting to me because it’s easy. Luring a kid from Miami isn’t.

I’m interested in your thoughts….

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52 Responses

  1. bighornfan32 said:

    January 21st, 2009 at 8:57 pm

    I agree with your approach. For example, Trent Richardson from Pensacola showed interest in us earlier in the season and we never pursued him. He is now number 6 on Rivals top 100. Also, I’d say recruit not merely on talent but how a player fits in to your scheme. We take a different style of RB every year, often one that will never excel in our offensive scheme. IMO, Chris Whaley will have to change positions unless he is content to never reach his potential as a RB. He is much more suited to under center playcalling where he can get a head of steam.

  2. CloseToJumping said:

    January 21st, 2009 at 9:43 pm

    And some guys have street agents working for them, especially in SEC country. Ahem.

    Cali is 38 million, Texas is 23.5, or something. Not nearly double, really. I hope that irrelevant point makes your head explode.

    The purest example of why we should be recruiting California is John Mackovic. We brought talented players in from California under his regime. If that can happen, Brown and Co. can recruit California. It has baffled me since 1998 that we haven’t really given a shit about that state.

    Thanks for the posts on this. Good stuff.

  3. Hey said:

    January 21st, 2009 at 9:44 pm

    Good article though I wish you had given credit to the creator of the map.

  4. Parlin Hall said:

    January 21st, 2009 at 10:37 pm

    “California is interesting to me because it’s easy.”

    Again: a perfect description of my love life.

    Seriously–nice series of recruiting articles, Scip. The argument for targeting California might be made even stronger when one considers the budget crisis that’s going to hit (is already hitting) CA much harder than it does TX. While athletic programs are usually fairly immune to these things, I’d be surprised if the economic sinkhole that California’s in doesn’t mean more opportunity for out-of-state recruiters.

  5. Vasherized said:

    January 21st, 2009 at 11:11 pm

    The Cali Longhorn roll call is embarrassingly short:

    Ricky Williams
    Kaelen Jakes
    Blaine Irby

    Other than the near miss with Darrell Scott, who else have we been in the mix for from Cali in the last ten years?

    Colorado has always relied on California to fill its coffers, as has the entire Pac 10, MAC, and WAC. I agree it’s perplexing that recruiting Cali has been such an afterthought despite having plucked a Longhorn legend and Heisman trophy winner out of San Diego.

    If Pete Carroll can pull a Joe McKnight out of Baton Rouge, there’s no reason we can’t lure one of Compton’s finest uh…student athletes and model citizens to Austin. Fine, at least throw our hat into the Thousand Oaks pipeline. The high school football system is whacked in California (particularly the playoff format) but the talent and sheer numbers are undeniable.

    I did notice a lot of Longhorn gear on the streets of East Oakland last time I was there if it’s any consolation. Maybe we need to plant Cleve Bryant on a street corner to start working on community relations.

  6. Jobber said:

    January 21st, 2009 at 11:39 pm

    Right or wrong, Mack wants kids who will play for Texas because they are from Texas. And honestly he doesnt see the need for anything else. “We have proven we can win all the games with nothing but Texas kids.” A static viewpoint yet, but BCS coaches are not, as you say, McKinsey consultants who optimize. They are creatures of habit evolved to stay in their jobs. Introducing more risk is non-Darwinian. Mack is also afraid that for every Cali or other OOS kid he takes, he pisses of a Texas HS coach and costs himself 3 future TX recruits.

  7. Scipio Tex said:

    January 21st, 2009 at 11:58 pm

    C2J:

    I meant to write “almost twice” not more than twice. Being corrected by you is the worst form of torture.

    To add to C2J’s list:

    Pat Fitzgerald
    Bryant Westbrook
    John Dutton

    Before you laugh at Dutton, remember that he transferred from Texas after James Brown won the QB job, but he ended up being an outstanding QB at Nevada and bumped around the pros a bit before becoming the king of Arena Football. Definitely a quality player.

  8. Scipio Tex said:

    January 22nd, 2009 at 12:06 am

    Hey:

    I credited the source for my maps in my two linked blog posts dealing with this and I figured my readers figured it out by now. However, I do hate when people don’t attribute, so, for the record again, these come from CNN/SI Recruiting.

    bighorn:

    I would have liked to have seen us try to get Trent in for a camp or a visit, but if he just wanted to play the game, I don’t really mind ignoring him. We also appear to have promised Whaley that he would be our one and only. Another tactic I’m not too thrilled about, frankly.

  9. Black Scholes said:

    January 22nd, 2009 at 12:10 am

    The Carolinas represent surprisingly well in that distribution.

    Jobber, Mack should have zero fears of alienating a Texas HS coach; and he wouldn’t do it anyway. This is a man who praises the profession publicly at every opportunity. That being said, recent maltreatment of recruits from Texas by both the OSU and LSU staffs has to make me think that generally there is little to no retribution or cost. Certainly Mack and Texas would be held to a higher standard, but that concern for the most part rings empty to me.

    My guess is Muschamp will pursue Mack’s strategy because it’s proven that it’s the right one, but I don’t know that he’ll be as dogmatic about it at the margin (a Fitzhenry, a Hills, a Kreigel versus gunning down an elite OOSer). He’s obviously got a comfort level in the Southeast, and he could certainly go into Georgia with a story to tell; I guess time will tell if that holds or not.

  10. 71grad said:

    January 22nd, 2009 at 2:19 am

    DKR went over this years ago. He said that the University of Texas is supported by the taxpayers of this state and the university has an obligation to them. If it comes down to an OOS kid an a Texas kid and the Texas kid has near equal talent he will get the ’ship.
    That has been our philosophy for the last fifty years and it is not going to change.

  11. Hamid Karzai said:

    January 22nd, 2009 at 3:02 am

    With respect, 71grad: if film surfaced today of a prospect in the tribal regions of Pakistan who could run like Ricky Williams, Mack and 120 other coaches would be landing there tomorrow, and with the full blessing of their schools’ alumni.

    In fact, if the CIA were serious about getting Bin Laden, it would simply ask Rivals to dub him a 5-star DT prospect, and college football fanatics would have an address (and game film) for him within 24 hours.

  12. NBMisha said:

    January 22nd, 2009 at 4:25 am

    Well played, Hamid.

    Skip – great series, more thanks. Obviously apt business analogy.

    I guess the no brainer implication is that a solid strategy absent some optimization is going to be out competed, in the long run, by those that master optimization. For someone surely will.

  13. Sessamoid said:

    January 22nd, 2009 at 4:40 am

    Black Scholes: “recent maltreatment of recruits from Texas by both the OSU and LSU staffs has to make me think that generally there is little to no retribution or cost.”

    If the 2009 class is anything to go by, Oklahoma State is finding the recruiting tougher in Texas this year. Their 2009 class only has 7 Texas recruits, whereas they got 14 Texas kids in 2008 and 15 Texas kids in 2007.

  14. Thornton Melon said:

    January 22nd, 2009 at 6:49 am

    “let’s pretend we’re running a business and we’re looking for quality markets for our widgets.”

    What’s a widget?

  15. srr50 said:

    January 22nd, 2009 at 7:34 am

    USC obviously is sitting on top of a gold mine, but Carroll has been very successful at expanding his brand in selective areas.

    For instance, looking at the 22 starters in the Rose Bowl against Penn State, USC had 6 OOS starters on offense (WR Patrick Turner, OG Jeff Byers, C Kistofer O’Dowd, OT Butch Lewis, WR Damian Williams, RB Joe McKnight)

    They had 3 OOS starters on defense. (DE Kyle Moore, LB Brian Cushing, LB Kaluka Maiava).

    That is 40% of the Trojan starters in the Rose Bowl coming from out of state, and all of them well outside the 200 mile marker.

    But to back up Scip’s point about good following great, Carroll fully understands the depth of talent right outside his campus. Of the 56 total players who participated in the Rose Bowl, only 13 were from OOS, or 23% of all participants.

    In other words, USC does a great job of identifying and recruiting difference makers, and then relies on home cooking to bring in quality depth.

  16. hiphopopotamus said:

    January 22nd, 2009 at 7:46 am

    Great work, as always. As a fan of Kansas it probably says a lot about my unhealthy obsession with college sports that I’m reading a three part series on where to cherry pick elite college football recruits.

    But that aside, I enjoyed all three and could not agree more on the California v. Florida debate. UT obviously has an inherent advantage locally, but with their funding and national prominence, there’s no reason to ignore gold mines simply because they aren’t in your back yard.

  17. Gene Claude said:

    January 22nd, 2009 at 8:17 am

    I agree…one small quibble, though. I think you are severely underrating Oregon’s recruiting abilities in California. Facilities and town are pretty fantastic, and I believe over 1/2 its roster comes from CA.

  18. HenryJames said:

    January 22nd, 2009 at 8:39 am

    Gene,

    Exactly. Southern California might not be within 200 miles of Eugene, but it’s close enough for Oregon to pull from the state’s high schools and JUCOs.

  19. The General said:

    January 22nd, 2009 at 8:49 am

    And Oregon is TCU’ing California. They aren’t going head to head with USC for elite guys.

  20. Blake Gideon said:

    January 22nd, 2009 at 9:10 am

    Overlay the Rivals 100 map over the following map: Black Density

  21. Blake Gideon said:

    January 22nd, 2009 at 9:11 am

    Add the Rivals 100 Hoops map and the effect is even more pronounced

  22. Super said:

    January 22nd, 2009 at 9:23 am

    71 Grad:
    As far as taxpayer support, that’s only 1/2 as true as it was during Royal’s tenure. UT gets far more of it’s money from private donors, grants, and foundations now with tuition deregulated the support from tax dollars will likely be further diminished. It’s the reason UT can lock students and the public out of so many of it’s facilities unless they hand over their first born for a ticket/membership of some kind; we didn’t pay for – Jamail, Hicks, and few others did.

    It’s a “public” university in name only.

  23. sl xpress said:

    January 22nd, 2009 at 9:25 am

    You caught that connection like a pop fly, Blake.

  24. Nordberg said:

    January 22nd, 2009 at 10:16 am

    Hey Blake, drop in any time. You’ll catch on around here in no time. In fact we probably dropped the ball in not inviting you sooner.

  25. CloseToJumping said:

    January 22nd, 2009 at 10:29 am

    Good grief.

    srr50–

    You left Taylor Mays off your starter list for USC, which actually makes it more pronounced.

    The idea that Oregon, Arizona State, and Colorado can work magic in California but Texas can’t is pretty annoying and has been for years.

  26. Chooky said:

    January 22nd, 2009 at 11:17 am

    That was damn funny, Nordberg.

  27. RansomStoddard said:

    January 22nd, 2009 at 11:27 am

    I still think TCU doesn’t get enough credit. After us, ou, LSU, A$M and others finish shopping, TCU picks thru the trash and consistently puts together a pretty successful football team. The majority of their players are from DFW area.

  28. Crown & Coke said:

    January 22nd, 2009 at 11:42 am

    Scipio, it’s a great post that makes a whole ton of sense when you consider how clearly the talent level has fallen at key defensive positions over the past 2-3 seasons.

    I don’t necessarily fault Mack & Akina’s pursuit of Robert Joseph, because despite the character issues, the kid was a bonafide 4-Star and an impact player by all accounts. Anytime you have an 85-man roster comprised of many at-risk kids, the law of averages is destined to rear its ugly head from time to time.

    However, my disappointment in our recruiting efforts quickly morphed into full blown anger upon watching the likes of Gideon and Beasley struggle throughout this season. In my opinion, both players represent the reprehensible amounts of laziness and apathy purported by Akina in the years following the MNC.

    In the absence of a catastrophic series of injuries, it is simply unacceptable for a 3-star true freshman safety to be starting a road game that can ultimately determine the fate of a national championship caliber team. Heading into last offseason, everyone knew that DB was gonna continue to be a glaring weakness. Instead of pushing the envelope and doing what was needed to land an game-breaking safety to compliment the acquisition of Aaron Williams, we took the easy route by extending an offer to a kid whose skillset is best suited for the Mountain West. In a conference where aerial attacks are among the nation’s most complex and multi-faceted, it is simply irresponsible to deploy personnel who are required to ‘learn on the job’. I am continually stunned by the fact that Akina seems to be given a free pass by the media for so shamelessly squandering what should’ve been a full-out recruiting bonanza in the wake of the MNC and the series of national accolades and NFL selections obtained by the likes of Huff, Ced-Griff, Mike-Griff, A.Ross, T.Brown, etc.

    As Scipio mentioned, the change in strategy does not have to be a drastic paradigm shift in recruiting practices. Instead, the California approach can be utilize to tie up loose ends that the Texas contingent can not always fulfill on a year-to-year basis.

  29. Mitch Cumsteen said:

    January 22nd, 2009 at 12:37 pm

    You forgot Will Goodloe, Thomas Baskin, and Ron McKelvey/Weaver. How could you forget Ron McKelvey? Is Darron Norris still a high school coach out there? I was under the impression that he was a good source for a lot of the California to Texas guys in the 90s.

    One more thing… while I enjoy this info and analysis, this is a far cry from the “recruitocosm” post from back in the day.

  30. honkskillet said:

    January 22nd, 2009 at 12:44 pm

    Just to put the breaks on your demographics a bit, the African American population of Texas is actually larger than that of California, and we all know what race the majority of top flight talent in the CF ranks are. But yes, we should recruit Cali.

  31. Facebook User said:

    January 22nd, 2009 at 1:09 pm

    Mitch: The Recruitocosm

  32. beowulf said:

    January 22nd, 2009 at 1:55 pm

    Mack Brown is risk averse. Probably in all phases of life. I’ll bet he invests heavily in CDs and AAA Bond funds. (wish I had lately)

    He also avoids rejection. Seems to really not like it. He takes great pride in Texas’ highly successful offer/sign’em up ratio. I would wager it’s the tops in the country if anyone had that info.

    Recruiting OOS sets you up for rejection at a much higher rate than Mack is comfortable dealing with (IMO). I would wager that we’ll see a significantly higher number of offers/rejections/signings of OOS kids when Muschamp takes the reins.

    Unitl then….ain’t nothing much gonna change at Texas.”>)

  33. BiggUggly said:

    January 22nd, 2009 at 3:02 pm

    beowulf is right again. I’ll bet Mack always took the leftover ugly chick to the prom because he was afraid to ask anyone else.

  34. Mysterious Package said:

    January 22nd, 2009 at 3:38 pm

    I agree with beowulf also. However Mack makes 3 mill a year and he should get off his ass sometimes and bring in OOS when required. See C & C’s point about Gideon and Mountain West. I hope Muschamp does not blindly fall into Mack’s way of recruiting. Also another point I want to address is this false idea of not wanting to anger the Texas highschool coaches. We have been burned before and will again and wish Mack would see that. The hell with them if they advise against UT as in the case of AD, Bomar(yeah it worked out well but at the time we got screwed), JM, and the like. Quit getting your pannies in wad Mack and go OOS! No more Gideon, Fitz, Riley Dodge, Cobi Hamilton laziness. Eearn your Barton Creek membership and the lakefront on Lake Travis for cryin out load. Hookem

  35. Stuck in MN said:

    January 22nd, 2009 at 5:04 pm

    I don’t think JM’s coach was the problem.

  36. sl xpress said:

    January 22nd, 2009 at 5:07 pm

    Cobi Hamilton is the winner in the “one of these things is not like the others” contest.

    There was no fierce recruiting battle against Bobby Petrino — or anyone similar — for those other guys.

  37. Justaguy said:

    January 22nd, 2009 at 7:31 pm

    Mack doesn’t recruit out of state because he doesn’t to be dominant in the Big 12. That is the flaw in the system. I look at the Texas roster and don’t see the same level of talent as USC, LSU, or Florida. Call me an idiot all you want, but Mack has gotten rich building a damn good program that only faces true competition a couple a times a year. They don’t play the level of out of conference competition that USC has with Carroll, they don’t face the in-conference competition that is seen in the SEC.

    He can take the states best, win 10+ games, be competitive in the conference, win bowl games, sell out the stadium, and be among the highest paid coaches in the land.

    I have always felt that to truly compete at the elite level on a regular basis Texas needs to go out of state in years when the talent is there at certain positions or a true difference maker is interested. In my mind fuck the ratio of offered to signed, but that seems to be a badge of merit for Mack and his staff and I can fully understand why they deviate from the formula that is producing for them.

  38. mysterious package said:

    January 23rd, 2009 at 6:53 am

    From what I’ve read about cobi is that it will take a few years in the system to start producing. I dunno but when I hear those words I think shirley there is something better out there. Go out and get the next 6-6 reciever. What’s his name from Memphis? He was somewhat interested until we for some reason stopped contacting him.

  39. beowulf said:

    January 23rd, 2009 at 7:45 am

    So you have an accurate and reliable assesment on Cobi from what you have read on the internet, mysterious package?

    Hooboy.

  40. Art Vandelay said:

    January 23rd, 2009 at 8:34 am

    Scipio,

    No Magic Quadrant?

  41. Minnesotahorn said:

    January 23rd, 2009 at 8:38 am

    “I dunno but when I hear those words I think shirley there is something better out there.”

    Awesome.

  42. dick said:

    January 23rd, 2009 at 8:38 am

    OK, some of the comments are getting a little ridiculous. While I do agree that Gideon’s play could have been better, I’m not sure Mack could do anything recruiting wise to improve there. In 2008 (the same class as Gideon), Mack went and did what most of you are suggesting and got an OOS 4 star safety in Brewster (yeah he had ties but he could have gone and played for daddy at Minn). In 2007, he got another 4 star safety in Christian Scott (top 10 national safety according to Rivals, top 25 national player according to ESPN). Guess what? Will Muschamp chose to play Gideon over both of them and I don’t get the feeling that the competition was even close.

    Sometimes you take a chance on 3 star players that really want to be Longhorns and you think they are worthy. Sometimes they don’t do shiet, sometimes they become good program players and if you are lucky they sometimes they become Heisman Trophy Finalists.

    I do agree with Scipio’s plan and I believe Mack does too. The last few years, we have filled 90% of our roster with the best class within Texas by far. We lose out on a few in state 5 stars (see BC’s multi-part series on the history of cheating) which is always frustrating. We continue cherry picking a player or two from OOS (L Houston, B Alexander, Brewster, D Johnson). And we have seemed to be pursuing studs out west (Irby, Scott, Kennard). The only thing I don’t agree with is conceding the top 25 guys in CA to USC and going after them. I’d probably take my chances on #30 player from Texas than #30 player from CA.

    Justaguy, you are an idiot. You told me to say that.

  43. Heaven's Door said:

    January 23rd, 2009 at 9:41 am

    Pat Fitzgerald, TE BIG-12 CHAMPIONS 1996 is a Cali kid

  44. jinx said:

    January 23rd, 2009 at 2:35 pm

    Staying with the business theme let me say “sustainable competitive advantage”. What can you better than anyone else. We can monopolize Texas better than anyone and letting go of that opens the door for OU and A&M to increase their stake in our primary market.

    Mack likes saying that he wins with Texas kids and I do too. I live in Florida and everyone here loves the fact that our starting QB is named Colt McCoy. I mean could you dream up a better name for Texas starting QB (a 3 star recruit I might add).

  45. Justaguy said:

    January 23rd, 2009 at 3:51 pm

    dick,

    Just curious, but which part do you disagree with? Alexander is cherry picking? Bad cherry crop that year I guess.

    Mack has gone for long hanging fruit out of state for the most part. Problem is that staying within the state has left Texas threadbare at times.

    California, Texas, and Florida on a regular basis produce the most recruits. Three schools (USC, UT, and UF) for the past few years have been the dominant teams in each respective state. One school has recently won two MNC, played for another, and run off a string of conference championships, one has two MNC and two conference championships, and the third has one recent MNC and conference championship.

    USC does have a roster made up predominantly of kids from Cal, but if you look at their depth chart you find 1 player from Utah, 1 from TN, 2 from Ark., 1 from NY, 1 from MI, 2 from CO, 1 LA., 3 from AZ, 1 GA., 1 from NJ, 1 from TX, 1 from HI, 1 from Florida, and 1 from WA.

    Florida has an even more diverse roster with 6 from GA, 4 from TX, 2 from CA, 1 from VA, 1 from CT, 3 from NJ, 2 from NC, 1 from AL, 1 from SC, and 1 from MD,

    Texas on the other hand has 1 player from CA, 1 from NM, 2 from CO, and 1 from SC.

    Would Texas have won more conference titles had they gone out of state? No one can prove one way or another just as I am sure some will point to the strength of the Pac 10 and a BCS bias to the SEC. Bottom line is that both Carrol and Meyer go out and get the very best of the best regardless of where the kids lives. I don’t think anyone at Florida was worried about how the coaches in state would feel if they signed Percy Harvin. Would imagine they were thinking how he would help them win a NC title. Doubt Pete worried if Taylor Mays would come work out for him in the summer.

    I won’t deny Mack has done a great job rebuilding this program, but we have seen time and time again he select kids that test well and go through drills great and then never pan out. We have send Texas take kids that no one can see how they will fit into the system and they don’t ever seem to really contribute. All schools have kids that miss, but I would like to get the feeling Mack is going for the best instead of the easiest.

    Point to the recruiting list if you wish and I will point out that in the time that Texas has had 21 players taken in the last five NFL drafts USC has had 31. Both are really relevant I guess as all the matters is on the field.

    Guess I am also stupid for being glad that neither of Texas’ home grown offensive tackles had to block that interloper Carlos Dunlap from Florida (shudder).

  46. dick said:

    January 23rd, 2009 at 9:39 pm

    Justaguy, I think I misunderstood your first sentence on your first post because I think you were missing a word. I called you an idiot because you said to and I just disagree with your insistence on vagina rubbing.

    Alexander was just an example of us going out of state to get players, the only one on the list that wasn’t a 4 star. If he starts next year, I’d say he was an OK get for a 3 star. Honestly, he probably strengthens the argument to just stay in state for recruits. Houston, Studdard, Sendlein, etc were obviously good gets but they are all like that. 4 star Brewster I don’t expect to contribute at all. Darrel Scott? We will probably all be glad we took Tre Newton rather than getting that guy. Perriloux or McCoy? Just pointing out that OOS isn’t always some guarantee for more success. I also don’t get that upset about the small differences in recruiting like the differences between a 3 star and a 4 star when talking about individual players. Now when we get back to back classes like we did in 04 and 05, then that leads to what we saw in 2007.

    I am saying that Mack is already doing what Scipio is suggesting, not perfectly but pretty dam close. You have basically picked the only two teams that have had it better than us recruiting wise and on field success and used that as your example. Keep going down the list of teams that also use the philosophy and you will see that we have more success on the field than them. The only ones close are tOSU, LSU and OU but they also stay within the same 200 mile radius as us for the most part. I’d also take our last 5 years over their last 5 years. Yeah LSU has a 2 loss NC and we got nothing for our 1 loss season but I’m not going to hang the crappy system on Mack. Mack’s got the same amount of undefeated NCs as USC and Florida combined as well.

    Everybody would look bad trying to block Carlos Dunlap, just like everyone looked bad trying to block Brian Orakpo. After seeing how OU played them, I am confident in our ability to have hung with Florida.

  47. dick said:

    January 23rd, 2009 at 9:41 pm

    * but they are NOT all like that

  48. Justaguy said:

    January 23rd, 2009 at 10:25 pm

    dick,

    I have never bought into the star system much for one basic reason. No way anyone can see every kid there is to see, have a handle on the different levels of competition, and then project each kid into the various college systems. The last one is the biggest key to me and one of my biggest frustrations with the way Mack has recruited at times. Too often it seems Texas has taken a kid who came to camp, tore it up running through cones and drills with no pads, and really doesn’t fit in what they are trying to do in the program.

    It is easy to point out kids like Houston, Scott, and the Cajun Counterfeiter, but Texas has taken their share of in-state turds. Look no further than the misses at safety. Bobby Tatum, Rufus Harris, Robert Joseph, and James Henry all came from in-state, all not only didn’t pan out, but wasted resources by leaving the program in less than 2 years. When you consider the amount of time and energy it takes to recruit a ball player and a kid doesn’t even stay two years (for whatever reason) is not only causing a hole in the depth chart, but burning resources that could have been directed elsewhere.

    Texas went through the same thing at defensive tackle when they signed Marcel Moses from Texas City and Sonny Davis from Austin Lanier and neither ever set foot on campus. Friend of mine claims that Mack pursued those kids despite the known grade risk because they were clearly the best two in the state. Don’t know how true that is, but if that was the case that would have been the perfect time to go out of state.

    Bottom line to me is you get the best players you can get to win. Mackovic’s relationship with the Texas high school coaches didn’t get strained because he recruited out of state. It was because the guy was a huge fucking prick and treated them like shit. That isn’t the case with Mack and if any coach can’t appreciate a guy doing whatever he legally can to put the best team he can on the field they are a clueless.

    In regards to Texas and Florida I am not as optimistic after watching the Texas offense struggle and how poor the Texas secondary tackled over the last half of the season. As much as I shudder at Hix and Ulatoski blocking Dunlap I can even imagine the Texas secondary trying to catch Harvin.

  49. mysterious package said:

    January 25th, 2009 at 10:03 am

    There is nothing wrong with cherry picking out of state and we should do more of it.

  50. Tim said:

    January 25th, 2009 at 7:32 pm

    “And here’s a little secret: for every USC fan in California, you can find another that hates their guts.” – Scipio

    Here’s another little secret: for every UT fan in Texas, you can find another that hates their guts.

  51. 8straight said:

    January 25th, 2009 at 8:43 pm

    Not sure the average USC fan nor the Texas fan really cares that others in their state “hate their guts”. It is kind of a badge of pride that goes with the territory for teams that win 10 or 11 games every year. Of course the Ags might be the exception for that 11 win/hate formula.

  52. Dunstan Pearl said:

    January 26th, 2009 at 7:17 am

    “Here’s another little secret: for every UT fan in Texas, you can find another that hates their guts.”

    Great point. Thanks for contributing.

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