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Just a few thoughts on last night’s latest national humiliation of the sham Sooners…
- If Denver really is willing to hire Stoops, he’d be well advised to take the job. He has pretty much run out his string at Oklahoma, and has demonstrated yet again he lacks the ability to get over that last hump. Texas fans, including myself, spent a couple of years speculating that Vince Young was the only thing that got Mack Brown over the hump. I think it’s time OU fans come to the realization that Josh Heupel was probably the only thing that got Stoops there.
- As much as I truly loved the overachieving season the Longhorns enjoyed this year, the way things played out at the end has really left a bad taste in my mouth for college football in general and the Big 12 in particular. This sham of a system we have in place for naming a national champion failed us miserably the last two seasons, giving us a national champion with 2 losses last year, and putting a team in the big game this year that had no business being there.
- The officiating in college football has become so awful that the game is bordering on losing its integrity in the same way the NBA lost its integrity in the 1980s, something that league has never regained. There are rules on the books that are just not enforced, a fact that has become so blatantly obvious this season that many games bordered on professional-wrestling kinds of farce. Last night, the officials allowed Oklahoma defenders to a) put a Florida WR out of the game with a blatant horse collar tackle; b) reinjure Percy Harvin by intentionally twisting his ankle well after the play was over; and c) intentionally yank the Florida TB’s face mask in order to prevent him from scoring. On the first two obvious penalties, no flag was thrown. The third should have resulted in an ejection from the game.The Big 12 essentially outlawed the calling of holding penalties during the regular season in order to create ratings-grabbing high scoring games. It worked, but to the detriment of its teams ability to compete in bowl games in which officials from other conferences were suddenly enforcing the rules again, if only sporadically. Stoops looked as if he was going to keel over and die from shock when last night’s officials called not one, but two holding penalties against his interior linemen, and even bitched about one of the calls killing a drive in his postgame remarks. Texas Tech’s offensive linemen became so frustrated during the Cotton Bowl at having to try to block without the benefit of being allowed to tackle defensive linemen with impunity that two of them threw literal hissy fits late in the game.
- The result, unfortunately, was that the Big 12 was revealed during the bowl season to have been the single most overrated conference in the country. Only the good fortune of having its teams matched up against inferior opponents in several venues allowed the conference to escape with a 4-3 record in its bowl contests.
As we sit here at season’s end, the reality of all of this is that no single team has a clear, uncontested claim on the national championship. There are four programs – Texas, Florida, Utah and Southern Cal – who have legitimate claims, and who deserve an opportunity to play those claims out on the field.
But that, of course, would require a playoff to be held, wouldn’t it?
Hook ‘em!!!
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Then a fourteen to zero run by Illinois. Hmmm.
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Trips Right commented on the blog post Thoughts on Evan Turner’s Bomb ago
No worries whatsoever. Teams like kansas, duke, WVU, and Cuse have all struggled in the conference tourney. I think the close win is actually going to help OSU.
whoopsat, I saw that too. I couldn’t figure it out.
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Sailor Ripley commented on the blog post Thoughts on Evan Turner’s Bomb ago
Awesome play. Does struggling with Michigan in any way make you less bullish on the Bucks? Anything in that game from the Bucks that troubles you?
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I wonder who had their bubble burst with the UH win. Conference USA has to be jumping for joy.
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Bob in Houston commented on the blog post Texas-El Paso Basketball On Now 16 minutes ago
UH: First four-game win streak of the season. The only other three-game win streak was in December. Between the two, 10-13.
Listened to the AD on the radio postgame, and he never said a word about Penders.
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Wow, maybe I’m the problem with the Horns. Utep going down.
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Shit just got real, imo.
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Derrick Caracter is a bad vato.
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You never mentioned bunting with your best hitter up. Nice restraint.
I’m convinced this strategy implies Augie’s tacit approval of having Balbay and Mason on the floor together.
Great article as well. I’m pretty fucking happy baseball season is upon us.
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Fried Rice, FTW!
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I was a little skeptical about Jungmann just due to the nature of the pitching beast, sophomore slump, I’m a fag, yadda, yadda. The dude is nails, and is going to be a multi-millionaire in the next two years.
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D W commented on the blog post Taylor Jungmann is the best pitcher in baseball 4 hours, 11 minutes ago
17 strikeouts is incredible at any level of baseball. I still think the hitting will come around.
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skymonkeyhorn commented on the blog post Rick Reilly Is A Walking Amber Alert 4 hours, 31 minutes ago
FBR,
Man that article fucking rocks !
With all the basketball wisdom here at BC this article makes all our talking heads look like drunken sailors in the middle of the Sahara Desert. Why sailors in the Sahara because its where Barnes has landed with his scheme(?) on basketball.
Barnes is going to war with -
Gaylon Krizak commented on the blog post Taylor Jungmann is the best pitcher in baseball 5 hours, 6 minutes ago
And why have we gone 9-1?
Because of a 1-0 loss. Pitching clearly let us down in that one.
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D W commented on the blog post Taylor Jungmann is the best pitcher in baseball 5 hours, 11 minutes ago
17 strikeouts is incredible at any level of baseball. I still think the hitting will come around.
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College baseball.
He’s a witch. Last night he struck out 17 Iowa batters in only 7 1/3 innings of work. And got a no decision. More on that later. He’s filled out his frame and is no longer all arms and legs like he was last year. His fastball has gotten, uh, faster, and last night
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There are some some mighty good points and spectacular literary references in this thread, but I can’t remember a single one because one poster had to reference the Listeater and another one had to drop a neutron bomb.
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You really think that’s a big deal? Or is this sarcasm?
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Loss in Waco = Loss in Kansas City
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Kentucky minus 4
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I’m thinking that the freshmen all return and Travelocity will have grown taller to be 5′ 5.5″ without his lifts.
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I
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i can access BC on my Iphone.
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Texas_Dawg said:
January 9th, 2009 at 6:18 am
1) Chris Rainey is a running back. Not a WR.
2) Harris held on to Harvin’s feet after the play was over… but he didn’t twist them. I thought he had but the replay showed he didn’t do anything more than just hold on to them. The message was clear… but Harvin was fine and there was no real penalty there.
3) The facemask on Demps was something that happens often in pursuit of a fast player, and the flag was thrown. That certainly wasn’t something meriting an ejection.
Lots of errors in this post, imho.
Huckleberry said:
January 9th, 2009 at 6:23 am
Bob Stoops has never won a BCS game without any John Blake-recruited players on the roster.
Dr.Venkman said:
January 9th, 2009 at 6:26 am
Also of note, 3 of the 4 Big 12 bowl winners came out of the north. The bulk of those winners were marginal teams matched up against even more marginal teams in bowls of little real merit.
If the conference was 4 and 3 with most of its top teams winning, there’d be a lot more post-season respect. As it is, the PAC 10, it’s fabulous record against the Mountain West Conference notwithstanding, now looks like the SEC’s closest competition.
Thanks conference wonks!
Thanks for dressing up in goofy-ass blazers and miserably failing year after year at the task of somehow “engineering” a national champion without the aid of actual competition. Thanks for foisting an inferior product on us (albeit one we bought anyway). Thanks for bogarting the buffet tables and open bars of the world in the name of corporate marketing. Thanks for memories of the year that was 2008 in college football.
Dr.Venkman said:
January 9th, 2009 at 6:27 am
Well, most of its top teams losing. Really…
beowulf said:
January 9th, 2009 at 6:30 am
His NC was won because of a Fla. St. team that had less business being in the championship game that year than OU did this year. Stoops’ offense with Heupel put up 12 points in that game. The Sooner defense with players that Stoops did not recruit shut down the mediocre FSU offense.
Spring Branch Horn said:
January 9th, 2009 at 6:34 am
Also Snoop Minnis (FSU’s top receiver) was suspended prior to the game with OU
EyesOfTX said:
January 9th, 2009 at 6:34 am
“2) Harris held on to Harvin’s feet after the play was over… but he didn’t twist them. I thought he had but the replay showed he didn’t do anything more than just hold on to them.”
With all due respect, you don’t have a clue what he did to Harvin’s ankle. I watched the same replay, and he obviously did something to reinjure the ankle, 2-3 seconds after the play was over, with the head linesman looking directly at him. Whether he twisted the ankle or just gave it a good, solid squeeze, it was clearly a personal foul that put Harvin out of the game for several plays.
Regarding the facemask, that was not “something that just happens”. If you watch the replay, you will see the guy reach directly for the face mask and yank it. That was an intentional, blatant foul that could have caused severe injury to the Florida player.
Levander Williams said:
January 9th, 2009 at 6:37 am
Refs still missed several holding penalties on OU’s linemen. I counted a stretch of about five plays during the first half where Loadholt and Robinson were manhandling guys on 3-4 of them with no calls, including one where Loadhoalt literally tackled his man from behind just before he got to Bradford on a long pass.
Not that this was unexpected – we’ve all known about this for a while.
I missed the tantrums by the Tech OL during the Cotton Bowl, but I did enjoy watching Stoops piss & moan about his guys getting flagged for a change.
Texas_Dawg said:
January 9th, 2009 at 6:41 am
Regarding the facemask, that was not “something that just happens”. If you watch the replay, you will see the guy reach directly for the face mask and yank it. That was an intentional, blatant foul that could have caused severe injury to the Florida player.
He was diving to stop a player running full speed near the goalline. This play happens all the time in football. Never does it result in ejection.
The officiating in the game was fine. Human beings aren’t perfect and there were no errors that greatly affected the game.
EyesOfTX said:
January 9th, 2009 at 6:45 am
“Refs still missed several holding penalties on OU’s linemen.”
No question – but officials never call every holding penalty they see during any game. If they did, all the games would last 5 hours. But they do, outside the Big 12, enforce the infraction to an extent that linemen are cautious about committing it. The problem the Big 12 created this year is that, by not enforcing it at all, linemen for certain teams (OU and Tech being the most obvious) lost that caution, and then were stunned when they suddenly got called a few times in the bowl games by officials who hadn’t been instructed to ignore it.
hornbymarriage said:
January 9th, 2009 at 6:45 am
I was personally livid after the Harvin “ankle pull”. All night long the sooners were doing dirty crap, usually right in front of the refs and usually after the play was well over. Not to mention, it seemed like the sooners still got away with some gratuitous holding the whole night. All my bias aside, not calling dirty play is how players wind up with unnecessary injuries. If I were Urban Meyer I’d be writing some nasty letters about now.
Texas_Dawg said:
January 9th, 2009 at 6:56 am
The problem the Big 12 created this year is that, by not enforcing it at all, linemen for certain teams (OU and Tech being the most obvious) lost that caution, and then were stunned when they suddenly got called a few times in the bowl games by officials who hadn’t been instructed to ignore it.
Or maybe OU and Tech faced two very strong SEC defensive front 7s.
Seems like a more logical explanation, imho.
Texas_Dawg said:
January 9th, 2009 at 6:58 am
All my bias aside, not calling dirty play is how players wind up with unnecessary injuries. If I were Urban Meyer I’d be writing some nasty letters about now.
Tebow and Harris were shaking hands and talking amicably after the game. Doubtful that would have happened had Florida thought he intentionally hurt Harvin’s ankle.
Ag_in_TX said:
January 9th, 2009 at 7:01 am
All night, I was wondering if this was the first time FOX had ever broadcast a football game…
Texas_Dawg said:
January 9th, 2009 at 7:07 am
All night, I was wondering if this was the first time FOX had ever broadcast a football game…
They broadcast 5 CFB games each year… and they bring that garbage NFL stuff to the games when they do… so they naturally suck at it.
The BCS move to ESPN can’t come soon enough.
Huckleberry said:
January 9th, 2009 at 7:09 am
Refs still missed several holding penalties on OU’s linemen. I counted a stretch of about five plays during the first half where Loadholt and Robinson were manhandling guys on 3-4 of them with no calls, including one where Loadhoalt literally tackled his man from behind just before he got to Bradford on a long pass.
There was some karma when Cooper had the Florida DT wrapped up right next to Bradford, allowing Bradford to get off the pass. Which was promptly intercepted.
Or maybe OU and Tech faced two very strong SEC defensive front 7s.
Seems like a more logical explanation, imho.
Or maybe both. People that have watched all Big 12 games might know what they’re talking about. But realizing that would require pulling your head out, imho.
Gene Claude said:
January 9th, 2009 at 7:18 am
Yes, the NFL playoff system last year named an undisputed champion that was clearly the best team over that month. “That month” having nothing to do with the rest of the season, but whatever. The Giants won the tournament, so they clearly were the best team in the NFL!
As an aside, you guys and your OU fetish are cute.
Huckleberry said:
January 9th, 2009 at 7:30 am
Yes, the NFL playoff system last year named an undisputed champion that was clearly the best team over that month. “That month” having nothing to do with the rest of the season, but whatever. The Giants won the tournament, so they clearly were the best team in the NFL!
As an aside, you guys and your OU fetish are cute.
The NFL doesn’t claim to crown the season’s best team. They crown a champion. Big difference. You are correct that a playoff actually makes it somewhat less likely, not more, that the best team over the entire season will win the title.
Also, if you had beaten OU since they fired John Blake you might understand. I realize that at this point they’re a wee bit out of your league as far as trash talk goes.
Levander Williams said:
January 9th, 2009 at 7:30 am
Or maybe OU and Tech faced two very strong SEC defensive front 7s.
Seems like a more logical explanation, imho.
Or one from someone who hasn’t watched much Big XII football this year. Or who doesn’t understand offensive holding.
srr50 said:
January 9th, 2009 at 7:34 am
This bowl season the Big 12 went 4-3
3-0 vs Big 10 (Ohio State, Northwestern, Minnesota)
1-0 vs ACC (Clemson)
Not exactly Murderer’s Row
The Oklahoma State loss doesn’t chap me that much — OSU was the 4th best team in our league and Oregon was the 2nd best Pac 10 team.
It’s the Texas Tech flop in the Cotton Bowl that really pins the overrated label on the Big 12.
The OU loss? It pleases me no end.
Texas_Dawg said:
January 9th, 2009 at 7:39 am
Or maybe both. People that have watched all Big 12 games might know what they’re talking about. But realizing that would require pulling your head out, imho.
“Refs don’t call penalties against my rivals” = (((drool…)))
OU, Texas, and Tech all faced defenses with stronger DL/LB groups than they had seen all year. And it showed.
RansomStoddard said:
January 9th, 2009 at 7:41 am
I work with a guy who started on Big Game Bob’s NC win over Fla St. He admits Fla St had no business being in that game. He also tells the funny story that Bowden let his seniors vote on the player curfew leading up to the game and they told him they would “get back to him” and never did. Says some of the Seminoles were out all night and slept thru the film meetings.
Gene Claude said:
January 9th, 2009 at 7:46 am
Seriously, let’s think about what we would have happened in a playoff system. Eight teams, right? Nothing else could actually happen.
8 v 1: Cincinatti v. Florida. Wow, competlling.
7 v 2: Va Tech v. OU. Wow, compelling. Hey, if Va Tech wins this, are they better than OU? And does it make your life better?
6 v 3: Utah v. Texas. First game that we have a matchup as good as a BCS bowl!
5 v 4: USC v Bama. Now we are talking. At least one consensus “best team in the country” will advance.
By the way, you may have noticed that undefeated Boise State and a Texas Tech team that lost to the number 2 team and beat the number 3 team don’t get to play in this playoff. But it solves all the problems!!!
Texas_Dawg said:
January 9th, 2009 at 7:48 am
I work with a guy who started on Big Game Bob’s NC win over Fla St. He admits Fla St had no business being in that game. He also tells the funny story that Bowden let his seniors vote on the player curfew leading up to the game and they told him they would “get back to him” and never did. Says some of the Seminoles were out all night and slept thru the film meetings.
You also had an outgoing Mark Richt, clearly a key cog in Bowden’s 90’s FSU machine, occupied with putting together a staff and recruiting at Georgia leading up to the game.
All this said though, ‘99 Texas wouldn’t have beaten ‘99 FSU, ‘03 Texas wouldn’t have beaten ‘03 LSU in the Superdome, ‘04 Texas wouldn’t have beaten ‘04 USC, and ‘08 Texas wouldn’t have beaten ‘08 Florida in Miami.
Facebook User said:
January 9th, 2009 at 7:51 am
Gene –
Yes, they are more compelling because every game really, really matters. Does Bama beat Utah if it’s a national championship quarter-final. It’s unknowable but I’d bet yes.
And I’m all for a 16 team playoff.
Ag_in_TX said:
January 9th, 2009 at 7:51 am
BTW – I took the picture at the top of this post and posted it as my CAPTION THIS photo of the day on a couple of other sites. Some of the better responses:
“Wanna get away?”
“Tim Tebow’s laser stare welds Stoops eyes shut.”
“I wish I knew how to quit you”
“Go to your happy place, go to your happy place”
“A little to the right Brent”
“As soon as they turn that camera off I’m gonna fuck that little dog.”
“Dear God, make me a bird, so that I can fly, far far away from here – Dear God, make me a bird, so that I can fly, far far away from here….”
TaylorTRoom said:
January 9th, 2009 at 7:53 am
Actually, ‘00 Texas would have beaten ‘00 FSU. ‘03 Texas would have beaten ‘03 LSU. ‘04 Texas would have beaten ‘04 USC. ‘08 Texas would have beaten ‘08 Florida.
Do you see what I did there?
Huckleberry said:
January 9th, 2009 at 7:57 am
Hey, does anyone know what the biggest blowout loss in a bowl game for either the Big 12 or SEC was? How about the biggest loss in any BCS game? Anyone?
The SEC coattails shit is so stupid. Georgia had nothing to do with Florida. Georgia got beat down so bad by Florida that you can’t even really argue that they helped prepare the Gators for anything. 49-10? Damn.
Ag_in_TX said:
January 9th, 2009 at 7:59 am
Texas_Dawg said:
January 9th, 2009 at 8:01 am
Actually, ‘00 Texas would have beaten ‘00 FSU. ‘03 Texas would have beaten ‘03 LSU. ‘04 Texas would have beaten ‘04 USC. ‘08 Texas would have beaten ‘08 Florida.
Do you see what I did there?
Yep. Of course, just opinions.
If Texas won its conference more than once a decade we might not have to guess in future games, but alas… Big Game Bob keeps getting in the way.
Texas_Dawg said:
January 9th, 2009 at 8:03 am
Georgia got beat down so bad by Florida that you can’t even really argue that they helped prepare the Gators for anything. 49-10? Damn.
Of course. Who said otherwise?
ponderos said:
January 9th, 2009 at 8:13 am
Here’s some more fodder for the shaudenfreuders …
OU hasn’t won a bowl game since Bomar.
hg03 said:
January 9th, 2009 at 8:16 am
inSECure
glenn said:
January 9th, 2009 at 8:19 am
you know, i’m wondering what impact the game last night will have on stoops’ plans.
a win would have been a perfect sendoff for him to go to denver. he would leave on top, having exorcised his various demons the last half decade or so and could count his college experience as a success, at least in his eyes.
now what?
Levander Williams said:
January 9th, 2009 at 8:23 am
“Refs don’t call penalties against my rivals” = (((drool…)))
Plenty of evidence (photo, video and otherwise) is out there documenting chronic holding that goes uncalled by Big XII officials. The fact that it happens to be practiced by OU and Tech to a greatarge extent – and that such practices have been consistently exposed in subsequent bowl games by 3rd party officials, leading to embarrassing defeats on the national stage – doesn’t make it less true.
And the SEC has the best defenses…EVAR!!!!!
Please. Is that why Ole Miss gave up 34 to that ‘overrated’ offense from Tech? After beating the eventual national champion on their field earlier in the year?
Huckleberry said:
January 9th, 2009 at 8:26 am
“Refs don’t call penalties against my rivals” = (((drool…)))
They don’t call them against us either. If you could comprehend simple sentences you would realize that we have always said that Big 12 refs don’t call holding. We never said they only don’t call it on our rivals.
You really are as dumb as I was saying you are. I was just kidding before.
OU hasn’t won a bowl game since Bomar.
I prefer the idea that Stoops has never won a BCS game without a John Blake recruit on his roster. But thanks.
Texas_Dawg said:
January 9th, 2009 at 8:28 am
inSECure
LOL.
Fwiw, I hate the blind SEC homer stuff. I have no problem admitting the SEC isn’t the best conference in years where it isn’t (and in some years it surely isn’t). I spent this whole season arguing to SEC fans (many of whom are now letting me have it) that B12 defenses were better than the stats indicated but simply had numbers skewed by 1) facing great offenses and 2) goofy 5-wide ball (where neither team runs and thus stats are skewed due to more plays/game than the national averages).
I still think #2 plays a role in the statistical skew… but certainly not to the extent that the B12 offenses skewed from their averages in the bowl games. Texas and Oklahoma were a respective 20 and 40 points lower than their season averages in their bowl games. Wow.
Huckleberry said:
January 9th, 2009 at 8:29 am
And Florida was 20 points lower than their average.
So Oklahoma has a great defense now? The one Texas scored 45 on?
Levander Williams said:
January 9th, 2009 at 8:29 am
“If Texas won its conference more than once a decade we might not have to guess in future games, but alas… Big Game Bob keeps getting in the way.”
No argument that it took two ass-kickings by OU for Mack to start taking the game seriously. We have been lacking toughness that hopefully is here to stay.
Georgia hasn’t exactly set the world on fire w/r to conference titles, either. What’s your excuse?
ChrisApplewhite said:
January 9th, 2009 at 8:31 am
Just imagine Eyes’ outrage if an official was a public proponent of global warming. I think we’d see a new level of internet rage. Anyone who opened the page would instantly die of radiation poisoning.
“The third should have resulted in an ejection from the game”
Come on, dude.
Texas_Dawg said:
January 9th, 2009 at 8:31 am
And the SEC has the best defenses…EVAR!!!!!
Please.
Fwiw, I don’t think the SEC defenses (or Ohio State’s, which held Texas 20 points below its season average) were anything phenomenal this year. Just a lot better than what these B12 QBs had to face all year clearly.
Huckleberry said:
January 9th, 2009 at 8:34 am
So once again, please explain Florida’s output yesterday. Did they face a DL/LB group better than what Tebow had to face all year? Clearly?
Texas_Dawg said:
January 9th, 2009 at 8:35 am
And Florida was 20 points lower than their average.
So Oklahoma has a great defense now? The one Texas scored 45 on?
I think Texas and Oklahoma had the 2 most respectable defenses in the conference.
Texas is a great team with a good offense… and played a great game that day to put up those 45 points.
I’m just saying that over the course of the season (not just one game) the numbers skew higher due to weaker defenses overall (i.e. beyond Texas/OU) and due to the pass-heavy style of play that produces games with more plays than the national averages.
WhoooTex said:
January 9th, 2009 at 8:39 am
“6 v 3: Utah v. Texas. First game that we have a matchup as good as a BCS bowl!”
…with three more games to be played to complete the playoff, all featuring name programs with good teams.
Texas_Dawg said:
January 9th, 2009 at 8:39 am
So once again, please explain Florida’s output yesterday. Did they face a DL/LB group better than what Tebow had to face all year? Clearly?
Certainly one of the better ones. (See my post just above this one.)
If only 1-2 B12 teams were held way below their season averages, it would be one thing. But 6 of the 7 teams were held double digits below their season averages. And I realize weaker defenses don’t entirely account for that (i.e. bowl layoffs, stronger opponents in bowls, facing teams that run the ball more, thus causing lower scoring games with fewer plays)… just saying they are at least a part of the explanation.
Texoz said:
January 9th, 2009 at 8:40 am
How about this playoff scenario for this season. You take the winner of Bama/Utah and OU/FL have them play each other. And the winner of USC/Penn State and UT/Ohio State.
That would be UT vs USC and FL vs Utah next week, then winner of those two games playing each other for all the marbles. That would be a damn exciting two weeks of college football. Urban Meyer playing his old school and USC trying to gain revenge on UT. Ahh, one can dream.
Joe said:
January 9th, 2009 at 8:42 am
The Denver job is Jason Garrets to loose. But assuming he decides to continue with the three ring circus that is the Cowboys, Stoops should jump at the chance to go to Denver. OU looses a ton of talent this year. His rep isn’t getting better in Norman any time soon, and how many NFL owners are OU grads anyway?
I’m surprised that the Sooner faithful are still so supportive of him. Mack would be catching all sorts of shit for loosing that many BCS games in a row. Especially to the likes of Boise State and West Virginia.
Levander Williams said:
January 9th, 2009 at 8:42 am
“I’m just saying that over the course of the season (not just one game) the numbers skew higher due to weaker defenses overall (i.e. beyond Texas/OU) and due to the pass-heavy style of play that produces games with more plays than the national averages.”
The counterargument is that, because SEC teams tend to employ ball-control offenses that rely on running and don’t expect a great deal in the way of exceptional passing or quarterback play, their defenses are generally overrated versus teams that utilize more advanced offenses. Prove me wrong.
See, I can play this game, too. It’s a subjective exercise that has no irrefutable solution; you seem to be interested only in advancing the argument on this board for the purposes of being a turd.
This is pointless. Let it die, already.
CurrentLonghornStudent said:
January 9th, 2009 at 8:55 am
Florida’s defense had the benefit of not facing Demarco Murray last night, and I’m pretty sure he was tabbed first-string RB by the same guys who brought you Adrian Petersen, so Murray must be something decent. You can’t conclude that Florida’s defense did a better job on OU than Texas’s defense.
OTOH, I fear that had Texas played against Florida last night, the Longhorn secondary would have looked like swiss cheese against a long-bombing Tebow. What tOSU couldn’t exploit could possibly have been exploited by a pocket-passing Tebow. Still Miller, Orakpo, and Melton deserved a shot at that Florida offense.
TaylorTRoom said:
January 9th, 2009 at 9:18 am
Bob Stoops kind of choked this one away, didn’t he? Passing up field goals in the 1st half that would have kept it a one score game in the late 4th quarter, the offense not being ready for the Gators’ defensive shifts (it was hilarious to watch the Fox time counter go to 33 seconds during most no-huddle plays), and the Sooners kind of quitting the last couple of minutes. All of this after campaigning to get into the game. He’s kind of a frontrunner, isn’t he?
Tim said:
January 9th, 2009 at 9:20 am
ThiThis “holding conspiracy” against UT that every BC blogger swears is there, is just pure ignorance. There are a ton of teams that get at least two holding calls per game called on them in every conference in the league. Texas Tech only had 2 called against them in the Cotton Bowl with Pac-10 refs, OU only had two called against them with ACC refs. A person with a legitimate degree outside of Austin Texas would be able to clearly see that if there truly was some sort of “holding conspiracy” in the Big 12 there would have been a lot more than just 2 holding calls by out-of-conference refs. It amazes me that BC bloggers can figure out the intranet, but this Big 12 holding logic has completely escaped them.
The reason the Texas Tech lineman got pissed off towards the end of the Cotton Bowl, is because the Ole Miss D-line was barking “hut” the entire game. Tech’s center Hamby tried to tell the officials to make them stop or he will, and some LB got in Hamby’s face and told him to quit crying to the refs so he hit him and got a personal foul. Tech’s LG said after the game that Ole Miss was barking “hut” the entire game and they tired multiple times to get the refs to do something but they wouldn’t.
Get your facts straight before you decide to write a blog.
s “holding consprac
Gene Claude said:
January 9th, 2009 at 9:32 am
Yes, a Cincinnati v Bama and Utah v Va Tech national semifinal would be awesome! For all the marbles! Wait, nobody believes those four teams would have won? Why are we doing this, again? Ahhh….to set up some clearly inferior teams against the Big 12, USC, and SEC. Would anybody buy into Utah being national champ if they beat Texas, Va Tech and Cincinnati in consecutive weeks? Or would it only count if an SEC, Big 12 or USC team was in the final?
Huckleberry said:
January 9th, 2009 at 9:32 am
Tim, you are an idiot.
For the 1,000th time, nobody is saying there is a holding conspiracy against Texas. We are saying that the Big 12 doesn’t call holding. Against ANYONE.
Good God. Learn to read, you jackass.
glenn said:
January 9th, 2009 at 9:37 am
another way to look at it is from denver’s perspective.
a team owner has to sell his decisions to his fans, and a big win last night for stoops would have gone a good ways in selling his hire.
will the sooner owner have the nerve to bring in a loser? i just don’t see it.
i think bob is stuck where he is now and as many horns have said, that’s not a bad thing.
Dunstan Pearl said:
January 9th, 2009 at 9:38 am
Oh good. Tim’s back.
Tim said:
January 9th, 2009 at 9:40 am
Huckleberry is the COOLER than You!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dia1OzZdSRU&eur%20l=http://goonfleet.com/showthread.php?t=121334
That’s why I’m cool – Huckleberry
EyesOfTX said:
January 9th, 2009 at 9:43 am
Yes, Tim definitely is an idiot, though not appreciably moreso than Texas Dawg.
t1climb1 said:
January 9th, 2009 at 9:49 am
Tim,
If I read your point correctly I think you are saying that if there were a conspiracy by the Big XII to have the officials turn a blind eye to holding in an effort to produce high scoring/highly rated games, then the bowl games would have had a lot more holding calls go against the Big XII teams when officiated by non-Big XII officials. Do I have it right?
The only problem with that is that in the case of OU and Tech (the 2 worst offenders of offensive holding according to so many) your assertion that because they were only flagged for holding twice proves there was no conspiracy ignores the element of deterrence. I recall last night that the holding calls against OU came very early in the game. Couldn’t it be that when they were flagged for holding early they realized they couldn’t employ the same methods and adjusted?
I’m not generally one who subscribes to conspiracy theories and I don’t necessarily think the Big XII made this decree etc, but I have watched a lot of Big XII games this year including ones that Texas did not play in and I can tell you without hesitation that there were a boatload of egregious holds and illegal hands to the face by lineman that went uncalled this year for ALL Big XII teams. More went uncalled than one would reasonably expect. Why that is I don’t know.
Texas_Dawg said:
January 9th, 2009 at 10:02 am
Yes, Tim definitely is an idiot, though not appreciably moreso than Texas Dawg.
LOL. Yes. Suck it, Tim.
i think bob is stuck where he is now and as many horns have said, that’s not a bad thing
Ummm… when your rival’s coach has 6 conference championships (including the last 3) to your coach’s 1… your rival’s changing coaches probably wouldn’t hurt, imho.
Woody Bombay said:
January 9th, 2009 at 10:02 am
Tim mocks Horns for their ‘conspiracy’ theories – which he either willfully or ignorantly mischaracterizes – and then unfurls his own conspiracy theory, bleating like a wounded goat over Ole Miss’s nasty, cheatin’ players.
Are you sure you’re not Ann Coulter?
Levander Williams said:
January 9th, 2009 at 10:06 am
“The only problem with that is that in the case of OU and Tech (the 2 worst offenders of offensive holding according to so many) your assertion that because they were only flagged for holding twice proves there was no conspiracy ignores the element of deterrence. I recall last night that the holding calls against OU came very early in the game. Couldn’t it be that when they were flagged for holding early they realized they couldn’t employ the same methods and adjusted?”
Yes. Unfortunatly, I think your attempt at logic will go wasted here on Tim. He has no incentive to acknowledge this inconvenient fact.
This is exactly what happened to OU against WVa last year, and what many of us predicted (correctly, I might add) would happen to OU against Florida this year.
Tim said:
January 9th, 2009 at 10:06 am
Climb you make a good point, but the two calls against Texas Tech one in the 1st and 1 in the 3rd quarters. The way the majority of UT fans claim it to be is that the Big XII calls no holding calls and the ones who take advantage of it are OU and Tech.
Part of the reason UT fans are claiming such this year is an excuse as to why they lost to Texas Tech. They can’t accept the fact that Texas Tech beat them up and down the field and had the lead for 58:32, so they need this holding thing to hold true for them as to why they lost that game.
The thing I find most humorous about the entire situation is that, if what UT fans and BC bloggers were claiming were true. Then UT either A) got away with as much holding as OU and TT or B) Tech and OU coaches were smarter than UT coaches and took advantage of a lack of holding calls mandated by the leauge office.
I don’t think the Big XII officials made this decree and I don’t think any offensive line coaches in the Big XII taught their player to hold, and I think the Non-Big XII refs proved this in Bowl games.
Of course if your a UT fan or blogger a mere two holding calls against your “rivals” in bowl games proves that some how you were right, but don’t take into account that both opposing teams to Tech and OU had multiple holding calls against them alo.
Stuck in MN said:
January 9th, 2009 at 10:10 am
Did I just feel the mean IQ on this board drop like a stone? Welcome back Tim, we missed you after the Cotton Bowl. Now go brand your steer and prepare for your next victory over Texas in 2014.
Woody Bombay said:
January 9th, 2009 at 10:12 am
“B) Tech and OU coaches were smarter than UT coaches and took advantage of a lack of holding calls mandated by the leauge office.”
This is *kind of* true. If you had read this blog all season you’d know many Horns lamented the fact that UT coaches weren’t teaching the OL to get away with as much as they could. If they’re not calling holding, why not hold? But no one has claimed a “mandate” by the “leauge” office.
“I don’t think the Big XII officials made this decree and I don’t think any offensive line coaches in the Big XII taught their player to hold, and I think the Non-Big XII refs proved this in Bowl games.”
It’s probably nothing that’s written down anywhere, no. But if you don’t think most OL coaches teach their lines to do whatever they can get away with, you must have a degree from Tech.
glenn said:
January 9th, 2009 at 10:20 am
dawg (what a stupid name – i mean, really), we are 3 and 1 against stoops the last four years and really should be 4 and 0. moreover, this past year was supposed to be a biggie year for stoops. expect mack to pull away.
the big xii is the big viii with fender skirts and baby moons. i’m a lot more concerned with wins and losses against key opponents than anything whatever to do with the big ex aye aye. i hated that we ever got caught up in this stupid mess of a conference that is really showing its ass finally.
hopefulhorn said:
January 9th, 2009 at 10:29 am
Well said, t1climb1. See if you can follow this, Timmy:
1) The Big 12 office, motivated by ca$h, as always, took a look at the QB’s in the conference and decided that easing up on calling offensive holding to help those QB’s to put up eye-popping numbers would have the following results:
a) high national rankings for several member schools = high profile games with big TV ratings
b) Heisman candidacy for several Big 12 QB’s increasing the chances that one of them would bring home the trophy
Worked out pretty much like that, wouldn’t you say? The main drawback is it sold out the integrity of the conference and set member teams up for trouble in those bowl games. Certainly there were other factors involved in the conference’s post-season struggles (e.g. quality of opponent, injuries, etc). However, it is hard to argue that officiating, particularly WRT offensive holding, didn’t play a part.
t1climb1 is dead-on with the cure. You don’t have to call holding every play or even close. Flag it the first time or two you see it and let the OL’s adjust. That is precisely what the non-Big 12 crews did in the bowl games involving Big 12 teams.
Woody Bombay said:
January 9th, 2009 at 10:34 am
Let me just highlight this comment from Tim again:
“B) Tech and OU coaches were smarter than UT coaches and took advantage of a lack of holding calls mandated by the leauge office.”
Tim, have you never been on this blog before? Have you never met a UT football fan? Have you never, ever heard a Horn complain about the coaching staff before? This comment was supposed to prove some big point for you? Really?
Man, oh man.
Dunstan Pearl said:
January 9th, 2009 at 10:37 am
“They can’t accept the fact that Texas Tech beat them up and down the field and had the lead for 58:32, so they need this holding thing to hold true for them as to why they lost that game.”
You’re only hearing what you want to hear if you think that’s the only reason most UT fans think Tech won that game. A braindead offensive gameplan in the first half and uncharacteristic mistakes by some of our best players had a lot to do with it. But if you don’t think the numerous blatant holds on Orakpo and others by the Tech O-line had something to do with it, you’re high.
Also, keep hanging your hat on that game. Enjoy being the fucking spoiler because that’s the best your second rate program can hope for.
Minnesotahorn said:
January 9th, 2009 at 10:47 am
You can almost hear dedfischer cringe every time Tim posts. Or maybe breathes.
Minnesotahorn said:
January 9th, 2009 at 10:48 am
Dustin Pearl’s first post on this thread is fucking gold btw.
TaylorTRoom said:
January 9th, 2009 at 10:51 am
After the bowl games, there is a lot of evidence that the Big 12 should be playing with a football painted red, white, and blue (old ABA fans will get that joke). The adults here are trying to discuss why.
Tom Donathan said:
January 9th, 2009 at 11:09 am
RansomStoddard
January 9, 2009 at 7:41 am I work with a guy who started on Big Game Bob’s NC win over Fla St. He admits Fla St had no business being in that game. He also tells the funny story that Bowden let his seniors vote on the player curfew leading up to the game and they told him they would “get back to him” and never did. Says some of the Seminoles were out all night and slept thru the film meetings.
Sweet how an OU guy was privy to all that insider FSU info.
Bob in Houston said:
January 9th, 2009 at 11:11 am
“Part of the reason UT fans are claiming such this year is an excuse as to why they lost to Texas Tech.”
I found large irony in the fact that Orakpo was injured while being held in a manner best attempted on a NCAA championship mat.
Huckleberry said:
January 9th, 2009 at 11:11 am
In your world, do players from different teams never talk to each other for the next eight years?
I’m not confirming the accuracy of his story, of course, as I have no idea. But your point is extremely weak.
Tom Donathan said:
January 9th, 2009 at 11:18 am
Glenn – the SW conf was dying on the vine. Nobody outside the state of Texas cared about it. The Cotton Bowl, host of the SW Conf champ every Jan 1 and jewel of the Lone Star State slid to middle tier bowl misery. A conference has to have more than fans in Drinkwater West Texas. It has to appeal to a wider audience. The Big8 saved the 4 Texas schools. Look where Rice, SMU, Houston and TCU. Be happy you’re not stuck with them fighting not to be the Armed Forces Bowl rep.
LonghornScott said:
January 9th, 2009 at 11:24 am
What no one is bringing up in this whole really poorly argued discussion is the fact that the long lay off strongly favors the defenses. Particularly with the up tempo offense that OU used to great success during the season.
Tom Donathan said:
January 9th, 2009 at 11:28 am
Do you drink from every cup you see? Experince tells me to be extremely leery of somebody who always knows someone connected to a program, or a big booster who gets insider info (yeah, I know that COULD happen at aTm under Fran), or claims any other number of rumor mill crap as gospel, when ultimately the rumors are untrue or unfounded at best. I want someone with 1st hand info in order to consider it valid w/o having corroborating info.
EyesOfTX said:
January 9th, 2009 at 11:31 am
Tom Donathan, with all due respect, that is some putrid bullshit you’re selling there about how the Big 8 “saved” the Four texas schools. It might well have saved Tech and Baylor, but The University of Texas would have been just fine in the Big 10 or the Pac 10, or even as an independent. Aggie could have landed in the SEC with little problem as well.
UT needs the Big 12 like my ass needs hemmorhoids.
Hook ‘em!!!
bob said:
January 9th, 2009 at 11:35 am
That might be true for tech, baylor, and A&M, but (here it comes) we’re Texas. We could have held auditions for other conference commissioners and made them play drinking games for the right to have us in their conferences and they would have done it.
sunset87 said:
January 9th, 2009 at 11:44 am
“Fwiw, I don’t think the SEC defenses (or Ohio State’s, which held Texas 20 points below its season average) were anything phenomenal this year. Just a lot better than what these B12 QBs had to face all year clearly.”
O.K., then who or what conference does have a phenomenal defense this year? If your answer is USC, are they the only good defense in the entire country. Yea, it’s the same ole, I see what you did there. Nice veiled attempt at a dig.
“Fwiw, I don’t think the SEC defenses (or Ohio State’s, which held Texas 20 points below its season average) were anything phenomenal this year.”
So, the SEC and tOSU defenses were just decent, however they are much better than the shitty defenses in the B12. For someone who says he isn’t an SEC homer, you sure sound like one.
Look, obviously the SEC has better defenses from top to bottom than the B12, but I would also say that Texas and OU have defenses just as good as any SEC team and as a whole the B12 has better offenses than the SEC. My point is, I think the QB’s in the B12 have seen defenses as good as (not on a weekly basis though)the less than phenominal defenses of the SEC.
Huckleberry said:
January 9th, 2009 at 12:00 pm
Yes, nearly Texas got everything it wanted during the conference formation negotiations because the Big 8 was saving us. That’s why Tom Osborne got so mad about how we kept getting our way. Because we needed the Big 8 more than they needed us.
Right. Either that theory is completely wrong or Deloss Dodds swings the biggest dick in America.
Texas_Dawg said:
January 9th, 2009 at 12:02 pm
Look, obviously the SEC has better defenses from top to bottom than the B12, but I would also say that Texas and OU have defenses just as good as any SEC team and as a whole the B12 has better offenses than the SEC. My point is, I think the QB’s in the B12 have seen defenses as good as (not on a weekly basis though)the less than phenominal defenses of the SEC.
Fair enough.
So how do you explain the B12 South’s poor bowl showing? Just a bad week?
srr50 said:
January 9th, 2009 at 12:13 pm
Fair enough.
So how do you explain the B12 South’s poor bowl showing? Just a bad week?
Oklahoma State – the 4th best team in the league – lost to Oregon, the 2nd best team in the Pac 10.
Texas Tech went belly up against Mississippi — that is the game that does the most damage to the Big 12 south.
Thanks Tim.
Bob in Houston said:
January 9th, 2009 at 12:14 pm
“So how do you explain the B12 South’s poor bowl showing? Just a bad week?”
Motivation is the key factor in bowl performance. If you don’t want to be there, or you think you should have been somewhere better, concentration and performance may be lacking.
This is a factor for Missouri and for Tech, although Tech away from home rarely has been a good bet (3-7 ATS vs. BCS schools just the last two years). Dez Bryant getting hurt also was a big deal.
RansomStoddard said:
January 9th, 2009 at 12:19 pm
I can’t stand it, I’ve laughed so hard today my ribs are sore. One of the guys in the office {Okie State grad} has had his radio on all day listening to the Sooners’ talk radio show. The list of excuses for their asskicking last night has been impressive, ranging from undeserved penalties, to mean home crowds to unseen fumbles by Florida. The latest is the best, however. It seems, according to the show’s host, that Ou’s offense is so sophisticated that any layoff of more than 10 days before the bowl game affects Ou more than any other team and that is the sole reason for the loss. Now comes the clapping seals agreeing with him by the dozens.
You just can’t make this stuff up.
Woody Bombay said:
January 9th, 2009 at 12:36 pm
“So how do you explain the B12 South’s poor bowl showing? Just a bad week?”
Why, what do you mean? One school played for the national championship, one school lost to a better team, and one school choked in the Cotton Bowl.
And Texas, of course, won the season’s most dramatic bowl game over perennial powerhouse Ohio State!
exuLt said:
January 9th, 2009 at 12:41 pm
“…and ‘08 Texas wouldn’t have beaten ‘08 Florida in Miami.”
Oh, I don’t know. A 10 point MOV against a common opponent sounds like a pretty even matchup.
Looks like your running the scores up late for “style points” to steal the Big 12 Championship from us only allowed you the opportunity to once again get depantsed on the big stage as a pretender. Love that national attention, don’t you?
Tom Donathan said:
January 9th, 2009 at 12:45 pm
Ransom – I live in Ok and have been listening to sports talk all day, and there ain’t alot of choices to listen to but one. I haven’t heard any of the crap you claim your buddy claims to have heard. Listeners are ticked at play calling on O and D. There is no sentiment that OU got screwed by officials or that the ‘O is so sophisticated that any layoff over 10 days hurts’ it. If anything, they sound happy that Fla didn’t hang 60 on them. Again, everything you hear isn’t exactly true.
Tim's Bleeding Vagina said:
January 9th, 2009 at 12:53 pm
“Fwiw, I don’t think the SEC defenses (or Ohio State’s, which held Texas 20 points below its season average) were anything phenomenal this year. Just a lot better than what these B12 QBs had to face all year clearly.”
so colt threw for a career high yardage amount against a defense that is “a lot better” than what he had to face all year? impeccable logic…
ponderos said:
January 9th, 2009 at 1:00 pm
[img]http://www.ibrrc.org/images/albatross-l-stare.jpg[/img]
Laz said:
January 9th, 2009 at 1:16 pm
I jumped out of my seat after seeing the first holding penalty on OU’s #72.
Judging by the Tech O-line’s act against the Texas D, the only thing they might have learned by watching the Texas-OU film is that short of strangulation, holding was not going to be called on them by a Big XII crew.
Didn’t the same crew work both games?
sunset87 said:
January 9th, 2009 at 1:41 pm
“So how do you explain the B12 South’s poor bowl showing? Just a bad week?”
Uh, they faced good defenses, just like Florida did last night. Florida won, but they certainly didn’t dominate. Those two teams were fairly evenly matched imo.
Tech laid an egg like Tech typically does if they are not at home. Also, I think there is something to what LonghornScott wrote above.
shockthenation said:
January 9th, 2009 at 2:28 pm
“Glenn – the SW conf was dying on the vine. Nobody outside the state of Texas cared about it. The Cotton Bowl, host of the SW Conf champ every Jan 1 and jewel of the Lone Star State slid to middle tier bowl misery. A conference has to have more than fans in Drinkwater West Texas. It has to appeal to a wider audience. The Big8 saved the 4 Texas schools. Look where Rice, SMU, Houston and TCU. Be happy you’re not stuck with them fighting not to be the Armed Forces Bowl rep.”
And if Texas had not come in to run this conference and tell Dr Tom to f off and set up headquarters in Dallas then the former Big Eight would be enjoying their tv package with Versus.
Pokey said:
January 9th, 2009 at 7:33 pm
The Southwest Conference folded like a cheap lawnchair after after it’s classiest team, Arkansas left it.
But I am happy to have UT, A&M, and to a lesser extent, Tech join with the Big 8. It’s made a better and more entertaining conference, even if it is bottom heavy.
Bob in Houston said:
January 9th, 2009 at 7:36 pm
“The Southwest Conference folded like a cheap lawnchair after after it’s classiest team, Arkansas left it.”
Heh. Never been a visiting fan in Fayetteville, have ya??
intellectual type said:
January 9th, 2009 at 9:23 pm
Texas_Dawg = new school echeese
spoon fed said:
January 11th, 2009 at 4:45 pm
Gene Claude – The Giants went on the road four consecutive games. They beat a 13-3 team, a 14-3 team, and an 18-0 team. If that is not good enough to be your champion, then nothing is. Would you seriously prefer a system that voted the Pats champions rather than make them prove it?
“Would anybody buy into Utah being national champ if they beat Texas, Va Tech and Cincinnati in consecutive weeks?”
HELL YES. especially if was b/c those teams had advanced after beating UF, USC, and Bama. How could you possibly not go for that?