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Scipio’s 2008 All-Big 12 Team: Defense

Posted by Scipio Tex on December 3rd, 2008 under Uncategorized

When coaches (ahem, SIDs) select these teams, there’s an understanding that they will reward seniors and program guys. They’ll even ask their colleagues who they should vote for to reward “the right guys” on their team. That’s how Jon Cooper – a bottom of the top 20 O-lineman – is awarded OL of the year. If you played high school football and shook your head at some of the All-District selections, you know the dynamics at play here. In our everyone-gets-a-trophy-society coaches (err, SIDs) love to suggest 1st Teams with 19 starters. They’re also not above playing politics.

Journalists tend to rely on the opinions of the coaches, each other, statistics, and, in the case of linemen and DBs, simply filling in the players tabbed in the preseason, irrespective of their actual play. Reputation rules all. They also like to select 4 OTs on the 1st Team OL and 4 safeties starting on the 1st Team at DB. Wonderful. Their offense is a swinging gate and the defense is a prevent.

Many fans tend to rely on a n of 1. How did that player do against my team? And could this player be featured in an Under Armour commercial? They also like to surf NFL draft projection websites and use that as the crux of their argument no matter how the guy actually performed on the field. Please observe Longhorn fans and Leonard Davis. There’s a persistent mythology that he was a consistently dominant player here.

I look at production, I look at what they bring within their respective system, I tend to overweight their performance in games that matter, I discount garbage time, I forgive normal human error, and I try to rely on my eyes rather than the safety of collective opinion. This is a dangerous road and it may lead to some contrarianism, but I hope it’s not of the mindlessly provocative variety. I find that just as annoying as you probably do. I also realize the folly of trying to compare Marlon Winn’s contribution at OT vs. that of Russell Okung – so I try to grade someone within their system as well as on a relative basis.

Most of all, I’m trying to pick a bunch of dudes that I’d want to go play the New York Giants with – and hope to keep it within 30.

1st Team Defense

DE Brian Orakpo Texas Sr
DT Gerald McCoy Oklahoma So
DT Roy Miller Texas Sr
DE Jeremy Beal Oklahoma So

Orakpo requires no explanation. Jeremy Beal does. He got better every game. In his last three, he was the second best defensive player in the league. I’m comfortable taking him over Tech’s Brandon Williams, who is a pass rushing specialist and disappeared in some big games (no, not ours). Nebraska DT Suh is a tough cut to the 2nd team because of his insane physical talent, but you’d have difficulty convincing me that he offered the consistency of Miller and McCoy.

LB Travis Lewis Oklahoma Fr
LB Joe Pawelek Baylor Jr
LB Sergio Kindle Texas Jr

Travis Lewis is all about production – 10 tpg, 4 interceptions. A no-brainer and a great example of player development. Joe Pawelek led the league in tackles and interceptions at his de facto MLB role. Sergio Kindle may be a LB in name only, but his athletic ability and motor off of the edge made him a significant force – 3rd in the league in sacks, 1st in the league in 45 yards across the field hustle plays.

CB Cha’pelle Brown Colorado Jr
CB Dominique Franks Oklahoma So
S Darrell Stuckey Kansas Jr
S Darcel McBath Texas Tech Sr

The state of cornerback play in the Big 12 is a travesty, but Franks was the best of the lot. Diminutive Cha’pelle Brown is certainly not a great player and he struggled against big receivers who bodied him, but he was effective in space and offenses generally avoided his aggressive little ass. Darrell Stuckey might be the most underrated defender in the league. Darcel McBath is a savvy veteran and he tied Pawelek for the interception lead. He has been at Tech forever and he plays like it.

2nd Team Defense

DE Brandon Williams Texas Tech Jr
DT Ndamukong Suh Nebraska Jr
DT Colby Whitlock Texas Tech So
DE Stryker Sulak Mizzou Sr

Sulak has NFL-level DE skills trapped in an average athletic package. Brandon Williams is a good DE who didn’t always show up in all phases. Suh could easily be on the 1st team, but DT is a position that demands consistency and I won’t compromise. Whitlock is a brawler who stuffs the run adeptly. I like him a lot as a 1 gap center molester.

LB Roddrick Muckelroy Texas Jr
LB Brian Duncan Texas Tech So
LB James Holt Kansas Sr

Muck is a great striker and hustle guy and he cleaned up a lot of messes for our defense. No LB in the league hit harder. MLB play in the Big 12 is weak. Brian Duncan is, and I’m not damning with faint praise, really competent. Smart football player. He was swallowed up against OU, but judging him by that game alone is grossly unfair. James Holt is another underrated KU defender. Every time I saw him, he was making a play off of the edge or a hustle play downfield. He led the league in forced fumbles. He singlehandedly destroyed a somewhat dangerous KSU offense.

CB Jacob Lacey Oklahoma St Sr
CB Jamar Wall Texas Tech Jr
S William Moore Missouri Sr
S Lendy Holmes Oklahoma Sr

Lacey is a really good athlete who would feel comfortable at LSU: great play, great play, bonehead move. He’s the Dexter Manley of Big 12 corners. Jamar Wall is an excellent athlete and no one really abused him. You could easily replace Cha’pelle Brown with him on the 1st team and I won’t debate you. William Moore didn’t live up to his billing, but he’s still a reliable run support guy and an occasional disruptor in an athletic 230 pound package. He disappointed me a bit, but not as profoundly as, say, Nic Harris, who is a well-orchestrated fraud. Lendy Holmes plays a nice deep safety. Very few holes in his game.

3rd Team Defense

DE McKinner Dixon Texas Tech Jr
DT Ziggy Hood Missouri Sr
DT George Hypolite Colorado Sr
DE Kurtis Taylor Iowa St Sr

Dixon is super-sound across the board. Mr Fundamental. Not the player I expected given his background. Ziggy Hood was horrific against Texas and I immediately struck him from consideration, but in watching him over the course of the year he worked his way back. Barely. George Hypolite is a good player, but rarely did he play to the level promised by pre-season hype. Poor Kurtis Taylor is a very solid DE playing on a horrendous defense. He edged out Nebraska’s Zach Potter and KU’s Jake Laptad because I have a strict limit on slow white DEs on my All-Big 12 teams. Call it the Gray Mosier Rule.

LB Sean Weatherspoon Missouri Jr
LB Jeff Smart Colorado Jr
LB Andre Sexton Oklahoma St Jr

Sean Weatherspoon – how can someone with so many statistics make so few actual plays? Sexton is a classy player in his hybrid safety/LB role and you get the sense that he was the only guy on OSU’s team who knew what the hell was going on any given down. Jeff Smart is a productive player. No more, no less. We’re scraping the bottom of the barrel for MLB play.

S Earl Thomas Texas Fr
S Daniel Charbonnet Texas Tech Sr
CB Castine Bridges Missouri Sr
CB Ryan Palmer Texas Sr

When Castine Bridges zones or has safety help, he is a solid football player. He’ll knock you out. But when he’s on an island…hmmm. Ryan Palmer – what can I say? He was really solid over the second half of the season. You don’t want him on a primary receiver, but who in the Big 12 do you want on Crabtree? Three interceptions, three sacks, a sure tackler. Earl Thomas was one of the best safeties in the league by year’s end and 3rd team may be shortchanging him. Good speed, good instincts, fearless in run support, forced six turnovers. Daniel Charbonnet is one of the best sorry players ever. Great instincts. Sometimes you wonder who issued him a helmet and then he runs an interception back for a touchdown.

There are some really good football players omitted from these teams. Had Chykie Brown remained healthy, he’d have been 1st Team All Big 12 at CB. Henry Melton, Zach Potter, Auston English & Jake Laptad get strong honorable mentions at DE. If Melton had played the DE position since his freshman year, look out. I loved KSU DE freshman Brandon Harold, but he’s surrounded by a tragic group of players and he’s still a pup. OU LB Keenan Clayton made a lot of plays, but he’s not physical enough for my tastes to ditch Andre Sexton.

Your thoughts?

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33 Responses

  1. bighornfan32 said:

    December 3rd, 2008 at 9:37 pm

    It really is sad Melton didnt just want to be a DE from the get go. He would have been great and earned a lot of money in the process. I’d say put Earl Thomas at second team, but other than that, little complaints.

  2. ChrisApplewhite said:

    December 3rd, 2008 at 10:22 pm

    Looking at some of those CBs, I wonder if Chykie Brown shouldn’t have been on the team anyway.

  3. beowulf said:

    December 4th, 2008 at 2:40 am

    For a defense that simply isn’t very good, OU has 5 players on your 1st and 2nd team? The bottom half of that 11 must be really really bad.

  4. dedfischer said:

    December 4th, 2008 at 4:39 am

    Beal is a guy I felt guilty about omitting and I conceded that to some OU fans. I’m just scared he would get swallowed up in the run game against the Giants. I just don’t get what people like about Weatherspoon. He seems extremely slow and doesn’t look good in space. Plus, he has a tendency to stand around and peak in the backfield ultimately letting tackles get too him. Or, guess and overrun plays. I still think Kindle’s a DE and he might have been a 1st teamer over the last couple of games. I only remember seeing him without his hand on the ground for 7 or 8 plays, but you saw much more of him than I did. Ed Britton’s statline against Stuckey: 3 catches for 101 yards and a TD. I like Earl Thomas better. I didn’t see Colorado or Iowa State play, so I might have screwed them. I think you could sack alot of QBs with that 1st team, but the Giants might not have to throw a pass. I always like watching Colorado’s LBs. Ever notice how Cabral plays his young guys in the 6-7 yard range and lets them flow to the football versus the 4-5 yard range where they have to make quick reads and avoid getting sealed off? You could probably use his unit on the first team in most years. I’m still marginally bitter that Victor Hunter saw more snaps against OU than Duncan, and when he did, it was behind Rajon Henley and Brandon Sesay. That’s not being your MLB’s friend. I would take Travis Lewis on my team in a heartbeat and I thought he was the best all around LB in the Big 12. Poor Sexton, he was playing that hybrid S/LB role about as well as you can and Beckman just took the Toledo job.

  5. Nordberg said:

    December 4th, 2008 at 5:26 am

    “We’re scraping the bottom of the barrel for MLB play.”

    And still no mention of Bobino or Norton. WTF happened there, especially Norton? He’s a senior next year.

  6. pickup 18 said:

    December 4th, 2008 at 6:12 am

    OU fan here – long time lurker – never posted, didn’t feel like arguing the fact that you all did indeed get screwed, but not about to apologize either – would love to see our 2 squads tie it on again.. but I gotta say this is a good list – well thought out and much more representative of a real team than the big 12 list. Nice recognition on Jeremy Beal, guy really has been a consistent solid player all year and getting better towards the end, forced 3 fumbles against OSU. Brian Jackson, OU’s other corner deserves probably 2nd or at least 3rd team recognition – doesn’t have the stat’s but very solid all year. No shame in leaving off Auston English, hurt too much and not a big factor this year when healthy and don’t get me started on Nic Harris.

    For the guy that said the bottom half of OU’s 1st team being that bad – some truth to that, that MLB position just effed us this year starting with Reynolds, then bringing along Box and now some construction worker for the game on Sat. In Venables’ D that position is just huge and if you don’t have a special one there you have issues – also you can’t discount the shitty kick coverage teams that have given up massive amounts of points and yards that have put these guys in bad positions.

    Overall – really impressed with Texas’D especially down the stretch this year, absolutely dominant front 7 play and improving 2ndary play, could be scary next year – very glad Miller and Orakpo are moving on…Mushchamp’s worth every penny – are we sure though that Auburn can’t lure him back? I mean really…

  7. HenryJames said:

    December 4th, 2008 at 6:17 am

    I really like Travis Lewis. If he sticks around for four years, he can break the OU career tackles mark.

  8. Horncasting said:

    December 4th, 2008 at 6:52 am

    My only small change would be to put Muck over Kindle. The true LB vs. situational pass rusher argument.

    One other small nitpick – if you do another list in the future, can you add the players classification? I’m always interested to see who we’ll have to face again next year.

    For all of the talk about the state of Texas not producing great LB’s anymore, it sure seems like OU can still find them and develop them. Makes me wonder if Wort will be next.

  9. hiphopopotamus said:

    December 4th, 2008 at 7:00 am

    Nice assembly of teams. I had Muckelroy instead of Kindle and Suh instead of McCoy on the first team. Even our second team was remarkably similar.

    Defense.

    Also, here’s what I put together for offense.

    Always interested in feedback, but the greatest compliment I’ve received so far is seeing what the media and “coaches” have put out.

  10. Scipio Tex said:

    December 4th, 2008 at 7:45 am

    bighorn:

    I think Earl Thomas was one of the best 4 safeties in the league at the end of the year. However, he had a learning curve early.

    Chris:

    You’re right. But they’ve got to play in games. Chykie just missed too many that mattered.

    beowulf:

    And I went light on Sooners compared to the coaches. The problem with OU’s defense is poor depth on the DL and a unit that is less than the sum of its parts. Venables deserves some blame for that. OU may be able to put more guys on an all-conference team, but our DL goes two deep with quality. OU goes one deep.

    hiphop –

    We have some tremendous similarities in opinion. I hadn’t read your list before doing mine and it’s interesting that we both picked Cha’pelle Brown at 1st team CB and Stuckey at 1st team S. Perhaps we’re similarly deluded or just really perceptive.

  11. Scipio Tex said:

    December 4th, 2008 at 7:54 am

    ded:

    Kindle did play some with his hand off of the ground, but if someone in the Big 12 were running a 3-4 like the old Wrecking Crew, I’d still consider their pass rushing OLB a LB. So that’s my tortured methodology for keeping Kindle there.

    I like Stuckey. You may be using a n of 1 argument. I probably watched him play 5 games and he impressed me in each. He was near dominant against Mizzou.

    I love Brian Cabral. I hope Muschamp’s eventual ascension to Head Coach means that we go out and acquire a real LB coach. It makes a difference.

    Horncasting:

    That’s an excellent nitpick. I will incorporate. As for Travis Lewis, he came to OU as a second rate RB from San Antonio and the Sooners took a kid that could run with natural aggression and coached him up in one year to All-Big 12 status. That’s why player development matters. We haven’t coached LBs here in well over a decade.

    pickup18:

    Thanks for stopping by. I really like our defense’s play down the stretch, but replacing our DL will be tough. We’ve got some guys in the pipeline but they need to grow up quickly. Our secondary next year will be a major team strength.

  12. HenryJames said:

    December 4th, 2008 at 8:12 am

    In conference games only, Orakpo had 10 tfl and 4.5 sacks. Kindle had 11 tfl and 7 sacks. Obviously Orakpo missed a game and a half because of injury, but you can make a case for Kindle at either LB or DE.

  13. dick said:

    December 4th, 2008 at 8:12 am

    “Brian Jackson, OU’s other corner deserves probably 2nd or at least 3rd team recognition – doesn’t have the stat’s but very solid all year.”

    I thought this kid looked good too but he struggled against Texas especially Quan. Plus as you say, he didn’t have the stats so that’s why you don’t see him on these Texas lists.

  14. dedfischer said:

    December 4th, 2008 at 8:20 am

    I may do a write up on some of the things Cabral does, if I get time. It’s funny how none of his guys really make a huge impact in the pros, yet they litter the all conference teams year in and year out. He’s unmatched at this level as far as putting his guys in position to be successful.

  15. hiphopopotamus said:

    December 4th, 2008 at 8:30 am

    Scipio: Let’s just pretend it’s the latter for the time being and be thankful that neither of us had Ian Campbell anywhere near our lists. I am curious as to why Kindle over Muckelroy though? I loved his energy all season, but really thought Muckelroy was more important to Texas’ overall success on defense.

    dedfischer: Everyone on Kansas’ defense should be ashamed about the Tech game, but it certainly isn’t reason enough to discredit Stuckey’s season. I’ve tried to block out as much as possible from that day, but I distinctly remember both deep balls to Britton being the fault of the covering corner (TF Corrigan Powell the first time and Kendrick Harper the second) – neither of which would see the field again after that game.

  16. dedfischer said:

    December 4th, 2008 at 8:45 am

    hiphop, I didn’t get to see enough of the North teams, so my omission of Stuckey based on the Tech game alone is not fair to him or Kansas fans.

  17. RolloTamasi said:

    December 4th, 2008 at 8:52 am

    Surely an apology to the state of kansas for the tortillaretort’s omission will be necessary post haste. Can’t let this lead to violence.

  18. dedfischer said:

    December 4th, 2008 at 9:13 am

    I’m attempting to set an example so possibly some wounds can be healed between Kansas and the state of Missouri.

  19. Vasherized said:

    December 4th, 2008 at 9:19 am

    Muckelroy seemed to more dominant earlier in the year than later in the season when it really counts. For all his tackles, minus a few forced fumbles and the INT returned for a TD, there weren’t enough game changing plays for first team consideration on the list that I didn’t put together. Same reason for Weatherspoon.

    I expected a bigger year from William Moore from Mizzou at Safety.

    Our secondary next year should take a huge collective leap in its second year under Muschamp. My only hope is that we see more Christian Scott and Aaron Williams in the rotation than we saw this year. I used to hope the same for Curtis Brown but not sure if that will materialize given the depth chart he’s facing.

  20. dedfischer said:

    December 4th, 2008 at 9:23 am

    Scott intrigues me. Given all your other DB talent, he appears to be a guy that could bulk up to the 220-225 range and play at LB. Certainly seems physical enough in the very limited time I saw him.

  21. HenryJames said:

    December 4th, 2008 at 9:34 am

    Muckelroy seemed to more dominant earlier in the year than later in the season when it really counts.

    Probably a reflection of the schemes we faced more than anything else. Hardest positions to evaluate in the Big 12 are linebackers and guards. They’ve been schemed into oblivion.

  22. dedfischer said:

    December 4th, 2008 at 9:37 am

    Obviously, we don’t know shit. Brandon Carter was just named 1st Team All American by the AFCA Coach’s picks. Harrell was the QB.

    http://www.afca.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=9300&ATCLID=3627599

  23. The General said:

    December 4th, 2008 at 9:54 am

    I was really hoping AFCA stood for American Football Coaches of America.

  24. TaylorTRoom said:

    December 4th, 2008 at 9:58 am

    I can see Kindle on the 1st team. If you were allowed to form a starting 11 from all of the defensive players in the league, to actually play a game, wouldn’t you take Kindle over a more rounded LB? Presumably your DC would be willing to use the schemes that put him to best use.

  25. HenryJames said:

    December 4th, 2008 at 10:00 am

    If Carter is involved, AFCA must be Association of Fat Camp Alumni.

  26. dedfischer said:

    December 4th, 2008 at 10:04 am

    I’m gonna paint my face, get a bad haircut, fall in my tackle box, and make All American next year.

  27. hiphopopotamus said:

    December 4th, 2008 at 10:17 am

    I would definitely agree that Kindle is more of a game changer and I probably had him a little under-valued. I just felt like Muckelroy led the best defense in the league in tackles in every game I saw and I think that consistency meant a lot to Muschamp and really allowed him to use Kindle (and others) in ways he otherwise may not have been able.

  28. coach Callahan said:

    December 4th, 2008 at 10:29 am

    You might want to go back and look at Suh’s numbers when you talk about consistancy. He led all defensive linemen in the conference in tackles. He had 2 interceptions for touchdowns. His tackles for loss and sacks were amoung the very top for defensive tackles and as good or better than most DE in the conference. the fact that he ended up second team on anyones list is a bit hard to defend.

  29. exuLt said:

    December 4th, 2008 at 12:55 pm

    df: “I’m attempting to set an example so possibly some wounds can be healed between Kansas and the state of Missouri.”

    Kansas Redlegs vs. Quantrill’s Raiders? Never happen.

  30. dedfischer said:

    December 4th, 2008 at 12:57 pm

    In other news, Crabtree just gave us the Hanspard, “I’m coming back next year.” That, or he doesn’t want to be stuck with Brodie Croyle.

  31. Scipio Tex said:

    December 6th, 2008 at 9:27 am

    coach callahan:

    I’m well aware of Suh’s numbers. As well as the teams he played to achieve them.

  32. exuLt said:

    December 6th, 2008 at 6:01 pm

    More the point:

    Kansas jayhawhers vs. Missouri bushwhackers.

    Let’s go mizzou bushwhackers!

  33. exuLt said:

    December 6th, 2008 at 6:04 pm

    That is to say, jayhawkers.

    Blue agave rules! nm

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    Somewhere in rehab Sean Sutton is pissed this didn’t happen 4 years ago.

  • Kevin Berger wrote a new blog post: Bracket Analysis: The Beasts of the East   9 hours, 8 minutes ago

    If the South is a region of guards, the East is a region of men. Large men, that play an old school, physical brand of basketball. Guys like Demarcus Cousins, Kevin Jones, Damion James, Trevor Booker, and Al-Farouq Aminu, put the power in power forward.

    These guys rebound above the rim and

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  • J Rog wrote a new blog post: Reggie Miller is a Bad Man   9 hours, 27 minutes ago

     

    If you haven’t yet, I highly recommend watching ESPN’s latest 30 for 30: Winning Time about the Indiana Pacer’sReggie Miller’s rivalry with the New York Knicks in the early 90’s.  Anyone that can make Spike Lee look stupid is a friend of mine.

    The things that Reggie did to John Starks in those playoff series are

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  • Nordberg commented on the blog post Texas finishes sweep of Iowa   9 hours, 46 minutes ago

    Green and then Workman I’d imagine.

  • J Rog wrote a new blog post: Bienvenidos a Miami: Heat Preview   9 hours, 52 minutes ago

    If we can score, we have a chance.  The Heat are a poor team in a mediocre conference this year and don’t come with a lot of fire power.  The one thing they can do is play defense, holding teams to 95.2 points per game, 5th best in the NBA.  Dorrell Wright returns from a

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  • Nate Heupel commented on the blog post Things To Do While Not Watching OU in the NCAA Tourney   10 hours ago

    coloradoag:

    First of all, I’ve very seriously thought your proposal #9 over. See: Calipari, John. People don’t seem to care if you buy basketball players. Only if you do it blatantly (USC) or you call/text them too much.

    Oklahoma (outside of Oklahoma City and Tulsa metropolitan areas) is a lot of fun if you’re

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  • Sailor Ripley commented on the blog post Bracket Analysis: The South is a Bear of a Bracket   10 hours, 1 minute ago

    Ha ha ha ha! It’s Joel Osteen’s world. You just live in it.

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  • admin commented on the blog post Bracket Analysis: The South is a Bear of a Bracket   10 hours, 1 minute ago

    Ha ha ha ha! It’s Joel Osteen’s world. You just livesin in it.

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  • admin commented on the blog post Bracket Analysis: The South is a Bear of a Bracket   10 hours, 1 minute ago

    Ha ha ha ha! It’s Joel Osteen’s world. You just live sin in it.

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  • ghostofagroundgame commented on the blog post Beat the Barkers NCAA Tourney Bracket   10 hours, 9 minutes ago

    I will own that tote bag. And it will hold my porn.

  • James commented on the blog post Bracket Analysis: The South is a Bear of a Bracket   10 hours, 24 minutes ago

    Baylor has the horses to make it to Indy, but Scott Drew is the Mike Gundy of college hoops. He’ll find a way to blow it.

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