Football Articles
Defense in stages
Posted by ChrisApplewhite on October 1st, 2008 under Football
We’ve improved, but we’re still playing shitty defense overall. After developing bad habits for 2 years, it takes time to not play like a full-on retard, mostly because of the 1 year rule. You don’t just step into greatness. It goes in stages, and I have written those stages down, complete with graphics.
The arrow is where we are, and the bars are, in order of appearance, our goals. The gradient goes from feminine salmon, to symbolize last years powder puff defense, to blood red, to symbolize the organs of our enemies strewn about the playing field.
The Darnell Cutoff
Be safe and don’t make mistakes. The same way a car company pretty much only needs to make sure their product won’t explode if rear ended (coughhenryjamescough) before they shove it out the door, this is the minimum level of acceptable defense.
A&M’s defense in 2005 was a horrific mess. When you ask bad players to make plays and put them in positions where they need to accomplish something, their fail will be felt by seismologists around the world. Watch the fuck out, Sri Lanka. By the time they beat us in our own yard in 2006, their defense looked like a completely different unit.
The only thing that changed was the massive scaling back of responsibility. If your grocery list only has one thing on it, the odds of your forgetting something is pretty small, right? Gary Darnell only asked his guys to remember the milk on the way home. The result was 11 guys, with one clear goal, not actively conspiring to make each other look bad.
In 12 games, they made maybe 4 plays. Teams with their shit together still scored on them. And they held us to 7 points with a lineup that could charitably called mediocre.
The downside to this strategery is that you pretty much remove yourself from having any influence in the outcome of the game. The goal goes from stopping the offense to watching them and hoping they mess up a few times in a row (It’s also a measuring stick for said offense. Scoring 7 points at home against teams like this is a red flag big enough to be seen from space). This should be our first goal but not our ultimate goal, since we do actually have the players to force our will on people from time to time.
The Slocum Standard
Once you’ve “achieved” the altitudinal success of the Kitty Hawk Flyer you can focus on using your talent in positive ways. RC Slocum won a maddening amount of games by being as bland as he possibly could and watching the other team self-destruct. Later in his career, after Mack Brown and Bob Stoops took away his talent base, this left him with a string of 6-9 win seasons, but when he had NFL talent he could play to his conservative nature while his guys made things happen on their own. Risk, for a defense, is a bad thing that you should generally avoid, but you need guys who can rush the passer in groups of 4 before you can avoid it.
This is my expectation for this year, to reach the level of the late 90s A&M defenses.
The Bobby Benchmark
I happen to think that RC Slocum’s best defenses were better than Bob Stoops’ best (minus 2000). Stylistically, however, OU’s defenses are of a more advanced stage. They attack. Every play, ever player.
It’s more than playing good, sound schemes with good players. It’s about creating opportunity without getting beat enough to tip the balance to the offense. Sometimes that just means trusting your players enough to blitz a lot (like the Eagles), but in Stoops’ case it means being aggressive with every player, trying not to prevent a score but create their own.
This is why any team with a decent OL can pump fake their way to victory. They usually have better athletes than players in the secondary. They’ve never had the talent we have now, even with Roy Williams. In 2-3 years, we can hit this level.
“But ChrisApplewhite!” you exclaim, “our secondary hasn’t been that good yet!”
True, but remember one thing. In 2006 Deon Beasley was the worst player on the field. Now he’s the among the best in the country, when healthy. Aaron Ross didn’t even start in 2005, and before that was really hit and miss. It took Cedric Griffin 2.5 years of playing to not be horrible. Michael Huff was a non-tackling mistake machine his first two years. In fact, the only DBs that came in and were good right away (that I can recall) were Nathan Vasher and Rod Babers.
Let it shake out, and watch what happens. We have, literally, 8-9 NFL players on campus right now in the secndary alone. We also have, literally, nobody playing at an acceptable level yet. Assuming we don’t hand the next defense to André Maginot . . . well, let’s not jinx anything.
The Marvin Measure
(First, I give no credit to Brian Billick for the Raven’s defense in 2000. It was there when get got there. It was the players mostly, and Marvin Lewis.)
I don’t know why teams even tried to beat Baltimore that year. Just forfeit and take the off week.
This isn’t a realistic goal for any team to reach, but it is an expression of the ultimate absurdity of coaching a football team — striving to reach a level you know for a fact you can’t (that’s why, since I heart symbolism, the last bar is slightly unreachable).
Still, it’s part of the spectrum, and occasionally one team does capture that lighting in a bottle. OU in 2000 is the closest I’ve seen with my own eyes (and probably the last great defense before the spread really set in), but they haven’t come close since. This year, in my opinion, is their second best defense, and it still doesn’t compare to 2000. Although, to be fair, the MNC team got to go up against Jeff Bowden calling plays from Mark Richt’s offense, with Chris Weinke at QB. That’s like shooting looking at fish in a barrel.
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Nordberg said:
October 1st, 2008 at 1:12 pm
“In fact, the only DBs that came in and were good right away (that I can recall) were Nathan Vasher and Rod Babers”
Michael Griffin.
ChrisApplewhite said:
October 1st, 2008 at 1:39 pm
I won’t say Griffin was bad, but he was not good until 2005. Then he went back to his overly aggressive self in 2006.
He tried too hard.
Scipio Tex said:
October 1st, 2008 at 1:41 pm
Fun post.
Is it your opinion that Deon isn’t healthy right now? He may be hurt, but he doesn’t seem injured. Chykie has passed him, in my mind.
I remember A&M’s defenses in the late 80s and early 90s actually being more aggressive than the late 90s versions, so I think you’re right.
I remember Roper and Wallace each having 15 sacks one year.
You watch the ‘98 Texas game where Ricky set the record and they’re giving Wane McGarity 10 yard cushions. Total change in philosophy.
ChrisApplewhite said:
October 1st, 2008 at 1:41 pm
That didn’t really come out right. I’ll just say that I disagree. As of the Kansas game in 2004 he got beat like twice a game for long gains because he gambled too much.
dick said:
October 1st, 2008 at 1:42 pm
Jammer was good early too before he got hurt.
ChrisApplewhite said:
October 1st, 2008 at 1:45 pm
“Is it your opinion that Deon isn’t healthy right now? He may be hurt, but he doesn’t seem injured. Chykie has passed him, in my mind.”
I don’t think there is any question that he’s still hobbled. He’s is hurt, not injured. He isn’t as quick as he normally is.
Chykie has talent but he lets his guys get wide open a lot. Everyone is talented but nobody is consistent, and when that baseline is set we’ll really take off. If we’re picking someone to put on Crabtree or whoever, Beasley is still my pick. There is a 15-20% chance on any given down that Brown will let someone get 5 yards away from him.
But the good thing is that everyone improves as the game goes on, which is a sign of youth.
Hippie Killer said:
October 1st, 2008 at 1:57 pm
Chykie passed him and Aaron Williams is right behind him too!
Aaron Williams said:
October 1st, 2008 at 2:58 pm
“In fact, the only DBs that came in and were good right away (that I can recall) were Nathan Vasher and Rod Babers”
I call next.
Machine that Goes Ding said:
October 1st, 2008 at 3:49 pm
“Stylistically, however, OU’s defenses are of a more advanced stage. They attack. Every play, ever player.”
Are you stoned?
Scipio Tex said:
October 1st, 2008 at 4:03 pm
I don’t think Mike Griffin gambled too much. I think Gene Chizik gave him a grocery list that was fourteen pages long.
Looks pretty damn solid in the NFL and nary a gambling criticism heard. Real coaching has it merits.
ChrisApplewhite said:
October 1st, 2008 at 4:32 pm
I think he did gamble too much. Perhaps he only failed too often. Whatever you call it, he definitely ruined a game’s worth of solid effort with one or two big mistakes.
The point was that massive improvement can happen in a short amount of time. Jimmy Clausen went from looking like he’d never played the position before last season, now he’s pretty much a lock for #1 overall when he leaves. We’ve had a lot of average football players blossom after a year or two now, and our freshmen are playing as well or better than 80% of the freshmen we’ve seen.
Imho, of course.
Parlin Hall said:
October 1st, 2008 at 4:42 pm
Clearly, the key to ensuring an NFL-quality defensive performance is having the Major say it’s not Calculus.
Why Mack doesn’t force him to do this every week is beyond me.
DBH said:
October 1st, 2008 at 5:36 pm
“We’ve improved, but we’re still playing shitty defense overall.”
True, but I don’t have that feeling of abject hopelessness that I’ve had for large parts of the last ten years. Then again, we haven’t played anyone. But my sense is that Coach Boom is making good progress and is at least putting the best talent on the field. I’m cautiously optimistic that we’ll get there, and that’s a giant leap of faith for me.
Ransom Stoddard said:
October 1st, 2008 at 5:48 pm
Wow, did your keyboard explode when you typed that Beasley is “among the best in the country”? OUR Deon Beasley? Really? I’ve got to get some new glasses cause the guy I’ve seen with the Texas uniform on with that name is not the best guy on our team, and might be the 15th best guy in the Big 12 South.
NateHeupel said:
October 1st, 2008 at 8:37 pm
“True, but I don’t have that feeling of abject hopelessness that I’ve had for large parts of the last ten years.”
I bet I can bring it back in six words: “Greg Davis is the offensive coordinator.” No one man has done less to more and less with more than him.
Chris, the funny thing about the 2000 OU defense is that the 2001 OU defense was probably more talented. Dan Cody, Tommie Harris, Dusty Dvoracek, and Jimmy Wilkerson. Every name on that list played in the NFL,
ChrisApplewhite said:
October 1st, 2008 at 9:10 pm
“Wow, did your keyboard explode when you typed that Beasley is “among the best in the country”? OUR Deon Beasley? Really? I’ve got to get some new glasses cause the guy I’ve seen with the Texas uniform on with that name is not the best guy on our team, and might be the 15th best guy in the Big 12 South.”
I am fine letting it play out. Just watch. They don’t build guys like him very often.
“Chris, the funny thing about the 2000 OU defense is that the 2001 OU defense was probably more talented, albeit not as good.”
They’ve almost all been more “talented,” as a measure of potential ability. Pure performance, though, 2000 OU is probably the best team I’ve seen this decade, top to bottom. Bob Stoops carries that “more with less” moniker to this day because of that season, even though it’s completely untrue.
A lot of things lined up that year. The Big 12 wasn’t ready for it.
dedfischer said:
October 2nd, 2008 at 3:26 am
When OU gets beat, it’s typically because Stoops gets outcoached formationally on defense. He runs the same shit Ruffin does, but with 4 and 5 star recruits.
TaylorTRoom said:
October 2nd, 2008 at 4:25 am
I enjoyed the parameterization of defensive performance (Darnell, RC, Stoops, etc.).
It was a different era (most of the opponents ran the Veer, and the QBs wore RB pads), but the ‘83 Texas defense was something. Texas could fumble a punt on the five yard line, the defense would come out, and as a fan you would wonder if the opponent would get any points out of it- TDs were doubtful and Field Goals were questionable because they were as likely to move back as forward.
Bartoncreek said:
October 2nd, 2008 at 4:47 am
Texas had 13 defensive players taken in the 1984 draft following the ‘83 season. That defense was unreal. Never seen a better one at the college level in my lifetime.
As far as Beasley, I hope you are right. He is definately talented. The damn injury rules force us as fans to speculate on what’s wrong with certain guys and that is not right. What I do know at this point is that Chykie is our best corner.
BatesHorn said:
October 2nd, 2008 at 5:54 am
We do still suck, but the improvement is now tangible and the instances of guys running edwin simmons naked through our secondary have been virtually elimnated.
steven said:
October 2nd, 2008 at 6:24 am
Always thought that the talent on the Texas defense tends to be with the DB’s, while OU’s strength has always been with their front seven. The high level of recruiting with the DB’s is probably Mack attempting to offset OU’s perpetual advantage up front. Like I said before, I doubt if Texas will ever be able to field lines as physically dominating as those OU tends to have, year in and year out.
ChrisApplewhite said:
October 2nd, 2008 at 6:40 am
“When OU gets beat, it’s typically because Stoops gets outcoached formationally on defense. He runs the same shit Ruffin does, but with 4 and 5 star recruits.”
Ha. You wish.
ChrisApplewhite said:
October 2nd, 2008 at 6:49 am
“It was a different era (most of the opponents ran the Veer, and the QBs wore RB pads), but the ‘83 Texas defense was something.”
You can say that again. I don’t remember what year it was — Todd Dodge played OU to a draw in the Cotton Bowl — but I think Akina’s defense could’ve held us to 10 points that year.
It’s amazing that anybody survived the 80s. What a dreadful decade to watch football.
WhoooTex said:
October 2nd, 2008 at 6:53 am
“Pure performance, though, 2000 OU is probably the best team I’ve seen this decade, top to bottom.”
Do you mean compared to other OU teams this decade, or against college football as a whole?
dedfischer said:
October 2nd, 2008 at 7:06 am
Stoops just uses his nickel package more often. Other than that, it’s a 4-3 with Cover 2. See West Virginia and Colorado games from 2007.
ustudboy said:
October 2nd, 2008 at 7:20 am
Pure performance, though, 2000 OU is probably the best team I’ve seen this decade, top to bottom.”
They would not be able to stop VY – FSU had no offense after Snoop Minnis was suspended
dedfischer said:
October 2nd, 2008 at 7:24 am
Nick Saban’s MNC unit from 2003 was the best defensive unit I’ve seen. Oklahoma finished with 154 total yards of offense in the championship game.
DBH said:
October 2nd, 2008 at 7:38 am
“I bet I can bring it back in six words: “Greg Davis is the offensive coordinator.” No one man has done less to more and less with more than him.”
Well, if this were a thread on Offense in Stages, I would have expressed my long-standing and continued hopelessness about Greg Davis.
I actually think Muschamp might be good enough to save us from Davis’ ineptitude, on occasion. Of course, when the defensive holds OU and A&M to 12 while the GD offense scores zero and 7, we’re still screwed.
ChrisApplewhite said:
October 2nd, 2008 at 7:50 am
“Stoops just uses his nickel package more often. Other than that, it’s a 4-3 with Cover 2. See West Virginia and Colorado games from 2007.”
Not quite. If it were that easy, everyone would be good.
“They would not be able to stop VY – FSU had no offense after Snoop Minnis was suspended”
I don’t doubt that. I’m talking execution only.
HenryJames said:
October 2nd, 2008 at 7:59 am
‘97 Nebraska would have rolled ‘97 Michigan.
Burn.
dedfischer said:
October 2nd, 2008 at 8:20 am
Chris, no offense, but I just haven’t seen a whole lot of evidence to indicate anything else. With my first full season of DVR, I will be able to confidently determine my opinion. I watched the replay of the Colorado/OU game last year, and the only thing different between OU and Tech besides bigger and faster players, were the jersey designs. The results were eerily the same. They actually took our defense to the Fiesta Bowl. Until I see something different, you won’t convince me otherwise.
LonghornScott said:
October 2nd, 2008 at 8:24 am
Great post, CA. We are starting to see some of the young DBs settle. These young guys have a very high ceiling and in about 2 years we are going to see a truly great defense in Muschamp sticks around. I think it would be hard for him not want to stick around to see just how good this group can get (especially if we make the money right for him). I don’t think anyone should count Beasley out at this stage (or any of the young DBs).
I think one of the main issues for us is going to be tackling from the secondary as we enter conference play. As green as this defense is, they are entirely capable of creating some game changing plays. They can’t suffocate you the way a great defense can, but they can certainly counterpunch. It will be interesting to see what Muschamp does against all the different variations of the spread. This is Muschamp’s first dance and he may miss a few steps, but to me it’s more about how this defense grows than how many we win this year.
It’s nice to have a part of this team that you know is going progress toward the ceiling of ability AND execution.
For all the criticism geared toward the offense’s coordinator over the years (rightly so, although more of it should have gone Mack’s way as well), I’m fairly pleased with the things we are doing right now. Our offense isn’t openly stupid, if fact quite a few elements of it are really nice.
Our running game design continues to frustrate the hell out of me… we would see a lot less discussion of needing a #1 running back if we didn’t always give them the ball with stretch blocking. However, the inclusion of the option and lead draw does give us more to work with than a lot of past seasons.
The passing game is pretty outstanding at this juncture and that’s not just because we have played weak teams. We are hitting receivers on the run as a habit and Quan and Ship really are on the same page with Colt when he scrambles (which is one of the reasons I think it’s tricky for the younger receivers).
We are not an elite team, but I think we are a top 10 team. Our schedule will probably make us look worse than we are. As long as we continue to play sound football through this gauntlet, I’m not really concerned about the number of wins and losses. BUT If we should happen to piss another shot at BSC game away at the end of the schedule and/or lose to A&M again, I will chew on broken glass just to distract my brain.
dedfischer said:
October 2nd, 2008 at 8:43 am
UT will beat OU, if you can throw the ball effectively and protect your QB. The OU gameplan last year was the best I’ve seen from Leach. Tech actually matches up with OU better than UT due to their I-formation playing into the hands of a base 4-3. Leach used the early stops by his defense to build a big lead passing on their Cover 2 scheme in the first half. This effectively softened the OU front 7 and then he milked the clock with Aaron Crawford (23 touches for 128 yards) in the 2nd half to hold on for the win. I know people will say, “but Sam Bradford was knocked out of the game”, so it doesn’t count. I say they weren’t moving the ball with Bradford in the 1st quarter anyway and that shit doesn’t matter in the win column. It’s still the formula to beating them. Dan Hawkins utilized great playcalling in the 2nd half to keep them off balance. Either one will work, if your players are confident they can win. We haven’t cleared that hurdle with UT.
ChrisApplewhite said:
October 2nd, 2008 at 10:08 am
“Chris, no offense, but I just haven’t seen a whole lot of evidence to indicate anything else.”
It’s cool, blind homerism isn’t offensive to me.
“‘97 Nebraska would have rolled ‘97 Michigan.
Burn.”
Henry, no offense, but fuck you.
Kafka said:
October 2nd, 2008 at 10:09 am
Dedfischer:
I’m a big fan of your posts.
Having said that, I think most non Tech fans would disagree with you about the quality of the Tech D and the reason why Tech beat OU last season.
If Bradford does not get knocked out of the game, OU most likely wins the game.
After Bradford got knocked out of the game, Stoops was monumentally stupid to not run more. He should have used the run to set up the play action pass. It would have put much less pressure on his backup QB and let him get settled in quicker. Stoops panicked.
If your point is that Stoops is not an amazing strategy guy, I could not agree more. The big thing is that he recruits well, develops his players’ basic skills and physical conditioning, gets them to practise hard during the week, play hard on Saturday, and he pays attention to details in realtime. He recruits a good staff. He works very hard.
Stoops’ teams are not at a schematic disadvantage defensively usually but he is no brainiac. We should admit that Stoops going to the nickel more frequently gives him the ability to apply pressure on the QB more creatively than is possible from the 4-3 with normal LBs.
Stoops would not have wasted Drew Kelson like the horns did after 2005.
South '06 said:
October 2nd, 2008 at 10:21 am
Totally agree with your assessment of Darnell. All things considered, I don’t think he was a bad coordinator. That 06 defense was a goofy animal, wasn’t it? With the obvious exception of the Holiday Bowl, we held offenses of varying talent levels to almost EXACTLY the right number of points. We never won by much, we never lost by much. We were 3 plays away from undefeated and 3 plays away from a losing season.
That strategy might have worked again in 07 had our offense not completely lost the ability to score.
Oh well, it’s all moot now. We are an atrocity against humanity on both sides off the ball.
dedfischer said:
October 2nd, 2008 at 10:24 am
I understand. I am by no means whatesoever suggesting in any manner that Tech has as good, or even in the same ballpark, quality of defense that Tech has. I never said that. All I pointed at was that Stoops doesn’t do anything fancy on defense for the most part. There’s more evidence to support this than for the argument against it, and I bet Stoops would tell you that as well. He recruits well, moves some of his best athletes to defense (Lendy Holmes, Andre Woolfolk, etc.) and is an outstanding motivator and great teacher of fundamentals. Schematicly, there’s nothing special he does. He’ll blitz a little more than McNeill, but his scheme is pretty vanilla in the games I’ve seen. And, I’m not sure I said or indicated anywhere that Tech had a good defense.
Riddle me this, though, Tech comes off a game of giving up almost 300 yards rushing in a half to a team with mostly youngsters and banged up guys on the OL. The very next week, they face a team with 3 All Conference OL and hold them to 34 carries for 107 yards using the same personnel? Hmmm, I think a base 4-3 might be able to intelligibly defend an I-formation better than a 3 WR, single back set, but that’s just like my opinion. You may not agree.
dedfischer said:
October 2nd, 2008 at 10:26 am
I meant to type OU in place of Tech in the second to the last word of the first sentence.
dedfischer said:
October 2nd, 2008 at 10:32 am
I will also add that, if you gave me a choice given our defensive scheme, I would rather play against OU’s offense than about 4 others in this conference. We’ve at least got players in the right place to have a chance.
ChrisApplewhite said:
October 2nd, 2008 at 11:58 am
Don’t focus on scheme. Teams have caught up to what Stoops does with X’s and O’s. It stopped being “new” like 5 years ago.
It’s how they teach, who they recruit, and the attitude they instill. You can steal their playbook and their recruits and still not do what they do. Attacking is a mentality.
Kafka said:
October 2nd, 2008 at 12:04 pm
Dedfischer:
Yep, if you are facing an I formation with 2 WRs (ala OU), a 4-3 makes a lot of sense. If you are facing a team with 3 or more WRs (like Tech uses), a nickel or dime makes sense (particularly if the running game of said team is not real strong).
For some reason UT used a 4-3 against Tech a great deal when it was obvious it should have been using a nickel or dime. Stoops was not making that same mistake, right?
I got the impression that you might have thought that the one of the keys to the Tech victory over OU last year was the Tech D when it seemed obvious to me that the key factors were Bradford getting knocked out of the game and Stoops panicking (by not mostly passing when his backup QB relieved Bradford).
Absolutely no offense intended, my good man.
HenryJames said:
October 2nd, 2008 at 12:09 pm
dedfischer said:
October 2nd, 2008 at 12:22 pm
I do think us beating OU had more to do with our defense shutting down their running game than Bradford’s injury. It played more into the hands of what we do on offense by forcing them to pass. You may not agree, but it’s not like OU didn’t try to run. Now, if those 34 carries would have yielded 220 yards, I think they would have won. But, at 107 on 3.1 YPC, I like our chances against a lot of teams in the country.
dedfischer said:
October 2nd, 2008 at 12:28 pm
Chris,
I think if you can block OU’s front 4, they’re very beatable because you can pants the other 7 attacking guys pretty easily given you have good talent on offense.
Parlin Hall said:
October 2nd, 2008 at 12:37 pm
HenryJames, simplify: Manning > Leaf
Kafka said:
October 2nd, 2008 at 12:57 pm
Murray, Brown, and Patrick (IIRC, those were the OU TBs) averaged 4.5 yards per carry on 30 carries. OU ran fine (when you don’t include the negative yardage from the QB sacks and whatever happened with the punter).
Tech did not force OU out of the run, Stoops either panicked when Bradford got knocked out of the game (or could not change his offensive game plan in realtime) and started passing way too much with his back up QB.
If OU keeps running, they almost certainly wear down the Tech D as the game progresses and probably also end up breaking one or more big ones.
Looks like we have a difference in opinion about the impact of the Tech D in that game (and that is OK).
ponderos said:
October 2nd, 2008 at 1:19 pm
You can say that again. I don’t remember what year it was — Todd Dodge played OU to a draw in the Cotton Bowl — but I think Akina’s defense could’ve held us to 10 points that year.
1984. OU’s Keith Stanberry intercepts a pass in the endzone, slides three yards with the ball clutched to his bosom like a mother’s newborn and the ref calls him out of bounds. Texas kicks the sister-kissing FG.
Thanks for the salt.
NateHeupel said:
October 2nd, 2008 at 1:24 pm
“I do think us beating OU had more to do with our defense shutting down their running game than Bradford’s injury.”
The facts don’t support your point, ded.
DeMarco Murray averaged 4.9 ypc on 19 carries for 94 yards. Chris Brown averaged 3.6 ypc on 9 carries for 32 yards. Allen Patrick carried only twice for 9 yards. 30 carries, 135 yds, 4.5 ypc. Not exactly great offense, but not a testament to run defense greatness either.
That magical 3.1 number didn’t come from your run defense, it came from a botched punt snap that Mike Knall fell on and 3 sacks on the backup QB. -28 yards right there on stuff your run defense didn’t do.
The running game wasn’t killing people, but Tech wasn’t shutting it down by any means. After a couple of poorly led drives by Halzle, OU was down 20-7, and they went almost exclusively to the air. With a backup QB who completed about 51% of his passes for almost 300 yards, imagine the starter who was completing 67% of his passes running the offense.
ponderos said:
October 2nd, 2008 at 1:24 pm
Chris, the funny thing about the 2000 OU defense is that the 2001 OU defense was probably more talented. Dan Cody, Tommie Harris, Dusty Dvoracek, and Jimmy Wilkerson. Every name on that list played in the NFL,
Add Lehman, Strait and Superman Roy Williams.
dedfischer said:
October 2nd, 2008 at 2:53 pm
It was good enough to win with our offense.
ChrisApplewhite said:
October 2nd, 2008 at 10:24 pm
Joey Hylyzele is the worst QB to ever take a snap in the Big 12. I will argue this to the death.
dedfischer said:
October 3rd, 2008 at 3:46 am
I agree with you, Chris, that dude did suck. However, I kept that game on DVR and re-watched 6 or 7 times before I deleted it. Most people probably only saw it once or maybe twice outside of Tech fans. What nobody ever mentions about that game is that Tech whipped them at the line of scrimmage for nearly the whole night. They get some minor rushing yards when they caught us in a numbers game, but did no real damage other than that. Plus, we were getting to the QB on occasion. On offense, Harrell had all day to throw. There’s been some games we’ve won because of luck (OU 2005), but that wasn’t one of them.
ChrisApplewhite said:
October 3rd, 2008 at 6:32 am
Look, I hear you. But it was luck. If Bradford stays in, you lose, simple as that.
Kafka said:
October 3rd, 2008 at 7:31 am
You rewatched that game 6 or 7 times? Wow.
I haven’t rewatched the 2005 UT-USC MNC game (one of the the greatest games ever played and the high point of the last 30 years of horn football) 6 or 7 times.
I now understand the true meaning of the word “fan” and realize that I don’t have what it take to be a true fan.
Now that we have revisited OU’s run stats in that game, don’t you agree that the Tech D did not force Stoops to abandon the run?
RolloTamasi said:
October 3rd, 2008 at 10:33 am
This sounds like the kind of strength and conditioning that would actually translate to improved performance on the football field.
Nordberg said:
October 3rd, 2008 at 10:43 am
“Joey Hylyzele is the worst QB to ever take a snap in the Big 12.”
I’ll go with a different OU QB: Justin Fuente. And we lost to that asshole.
ChrisApplewhite said:
October 3rd, 2008 at 10:49 am
Not in Big 12 we didn’t.