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On Aug 30th, Texas opens its season by hosting Florida Atlantic. Mack Brown will begin his 11th season as the Longhorns Head Coach. In the 116 years of UT football, only one other coach has lasted as long.
Darrell Royal was at Texas for 20 years. Bear Bryant stayed at ‘Bama for 25 years. Woody Hayes was at Ohio State for 28 years, Bo Schembechler at Michigan for 21seasons. Perhaps uber-successful coaches like Brown, Pete Carroll at USC, Jim Tressell at Ohio State and Urban Meyer at Florida will put in two decades at their schools, but the times seem to dictate otherwise.
At Texas only four coaches have survived at least a decade as head coach: D.X. Bible (10 years), who established Texas as a national player on the collegiate scene almost 70 years ago, Darrell Royal, his successor, Fred Akers, and of course Mack Brown.
As we head into the 2008 football season, I thought I would take a look at the last three, all still well-known to Longhorn faithful, and see what if any trends can be discerned from a 10-year output.
Obviously, there are certain facts easily seen. Royal was halfway through his legendary run at the ten-year mark, and while he had brought Texas its first National Championship, at the end of his first 10 years he had experienced three straight 4-loss seasons, and there were rumblings among the alumni and fans about where the program was headed.
Akers of course was gone after his 10th season, for a variety of reasons, not the least of which was the first losing season in 30 years at UT.
Mack brought the program back to national prominence, captured a National Title and is entering his second decade of service.
The game has changed dramatically over the past 50 years since Royal stepped onto the UT campus. Still there are factors that can be looked at, such as overall performance, records against ranked opponents, and records against major rivals.
The Basics
Darrell Royal
When Royal arrived at the 40 Acres, Texas had been in a downward spiral in the 10 years since D.X. Bible retired from coaching. Both Blair Cherry and Ed Price had beaten OU in their first seasons at Texas, and then never beat the Sooners again. Price’s last year saw Texas plummet to a 1-9 record in 1956.
Darrell Royal’s first “Statement” win came against his alma mater and former coach, Bud Wilkinson, when the Longhorns defeated the Sooners 15-14 in 1958.
In his first ten years at Texas Royal’s overall record was 82-23-3 for a 75.2% winning percentage. In SWC play he was 50-15-2, a 75.8% winning percentage.
Royal won two outright SWC titles in the first ten years, two co-championships, and a National Championship.
During this ten year stretch:
Texas finished in the Top 5 in five seasons in that decade (1959, 1961-64.)
Texas finished in the Top 20 another two times (1957, 1960).
Record vs. OU 8-2
Record vs. A&M 10-0
During a four-year period, (1961-64) Texas was 40-3-1 with a National Championship and a Top 5 finish every year. After the 1963 title, Royal admitted that he spent too much time on the PR circuit giving too many speeches. He also admitted later that he and is staff went for quantity instead of quality in recruting that off season, getting numbers but failing to sign any real difference makers. From 1965-67, Texas paid for it with three straight 4-loss seasons. However, recruiting rebounded in 1967-68 and his second National Championship was on the horizon as he entered his 11th seasons at the Longhorns Head Coach. He was also about to go on a record-breaking win streak.
Fred Akers
Royal’s last year at Texas resulted in his only non-winning season (5-5-1) and led to Fred Akers being hired as head coach. He inherited a team that was light on upperclassmen talent, but loaded with freshmen and sophomores who could play. Of course there was one senior, Earl Campbell, who would win the Heisman Trophy that year. Akers 1977 squad raced to an unbeaten regular season and for the next several years he re-established Texas among the nation’s elite.
In 1977, Akers took a third-string QB and a Heisman Trophy winning RB and fashioned an unbeaten regular season.
Akers final record at Texas was 86-31-2 for a 72.8% winning percentage and a 60-19-1 mark in the SWC for a winning percentage of 75.6% .
During the Akers decade, Texas won two SWC Championships outright.
Texas finished in the Top 10 four times (1977, 1978, 1981, 1983)
Texas finished in the Top 20 two times (1979, 1982)
Record vs. OU 5-4-1
Record vs. A&M 5-5
From 1977 to 1983 Akers record at Texas was 66-17-1 for a winning percentage of 79.1%. Up until 1984 Akers had dominated the OU and A&M series. However his last three campaigns saw Texas go 0-5-1 against the duo, helping to speed along his demise.
Mack Brown
From 1984 to 1997, Texas compiled a 92-68-3 record under Akers, David McWilliams and John Mackovic. That is a winning percentage of 57.1%. Texas never finished a season ranked in the Top 10. Brown was hired to bring Texas out of mediocrity and back into the national spotlight. Brown has made Texas relevant again on the national stage in his first decade.
Mack Brown celebrates the National Title game victory over USC in the 2006 Rose Bowl with one of the lettermen off of that team.
Brown is 103-25-0 in his ten years at Texas for a winning percentage of 80.4%. His Big 12 conference mark is 65-15-0 for a winning percentage of 81.2%.
During Brown’s first decade Texas has 3 Big 12 South Division championships, 1 Big 12 Championship and 1 National Title.
Texas has finished in the Top 5 three times (2001, 2004, 2005)
Texas finished in the Top 10 two other times (2002, 2007)
Texas finished in the Top 25 the other five years (1998, 1999, 2000,
2003, 2006)
Record vs. OU 4-6
Record vs. A&M 7-3
This past season when Texas went 5-3 in Big 12 regular season play was the first time the Horns lost as many as 3 conference games under Brown. During the last seven seasons, Texas is 76-14, for a 84.4% winning percentage.
Comparative Trends in Constant Factors
While trying to compare teams over a 50-year span is counter-productive, it is interesting to take a look at some categories from within each decade that carry over.
Record Against Nationally Ranked Opponents:
Darrell Royal 1957-66
Top 10 opponents: 9-8-1 (52.7%)
Top 20 opponents 5-2 (71.4%)
Overall Record Against Ranked Opponents: 14-10-1 58.0%
Percentage of schedule vs. Top 10 opponents: 16.7%
Percentage of schedule vs. Top 20 opponents 23.1%
When Royal took over the program in 1957, he faced nationally ranked opponents in 6 of the 11 games that year. He lost to #1 OU and #7 Ole Miss in the Sugar Bowl, while defeating #4 A&M, #10 Arkansas, #13 Rice and #17 TCU.
From 1961-64 when Texas was going 40-3-1, the Horns played eight ranked opponents, all of whom were in the Top Ten. Texas went 6-2 in those eight contests.
Fred Akers 1977-86
Top 10 opponents 15-8-1 (64.6%)
Top 20 opponents 9-8 (52.9%)
Overall Record Against Ranked Opponents 24-16-1 (59.7%)
Percentage of schedule vs. Top 10 opponents 20.2%
Percentage of schedule vs. Top 20 opponents 34.4%*
*One side note. Of the 41 nationally ranked opponents that Texas faced during the Akers era, none of them rated lower than #17 at the time of the contest. The record strongly points to his ability to get a team ready to play against top opponents during the regular season. In his 10 years at Texas, Akers’ teams were 13-6-1 against Top Ten teams in the regular season. That is a 67.5% winning percentage against the nation’s elite. Of course it is the occasional regular season loss to a lesser team combined with the post-season record against nationally ranked opponents that especially rankled Longhorn fans.
Mack Brown 1998-2007
Top 10 opponents 6-12 (33.3%)
Top 11-20 opponents 11-2 (84.6%)
Top 21-25 opponents 8-2 (80.0%)
Overall Record Against Top 25 Opponents 25-17-0 (60.1%)
Percentage of schedule vs. Top 10 opponents 14.1%
Percentage of schedule vs. Top 25 opponents 32.0%
During his first five years on campus, Mack Brown had rough going against ranked opponents, posting a 9-11 record. However since 2003, Texas is 16-5 vs. ranked foes. Unlike Akers, Brown has handled the ranked teams out of the Top Ten with greater success.
Both Fred Akers and Mack Brown faced 41 nationally ranked teams in 10 years. Brown’s number includes ten games against teams ranked 21-25 after expansion of the rankings.
Based on the numbers, you can see why Longhorn faithful would have been frustrated throughout the Akers Tenure. Texas faced a nationally ranked team just about 1 out of every 3 games, and an elite Top Ten program 1 out of every 5 contests. Despite that brutal schedule, Akers had great regular season success against elite teams. But he would invariably stumble somewhere along the way to an unranked team, or get to a bowl game and not give the kind of performance that had been seen in the regular season.
Mack Brown, on the other hand, has dominated the mid-ranked teams with regularity. Of course there is that little matter of OU. Still his teams generally survive the fanatical effort of lesser opponents.
Bowl Records
Darrell Royal 4-3-1 56.3%
Fred Akers 2-7 22.2%
Mack Brown 7-3 70.0%
On the surface Royal’s record in bowl games is pedestian. However the competition was
decidedly on a higher plane. In the 1960’s there were only eight bowl games. Royal’s
1958 team went 7-3 during the regular season — and stayed at home. So did his 1965
squad that went 6-4. Today both would have been playing during the Holidays.
As for the competition, it was always against a ranked opponent. In seven of the eight bowl games, Texas faced a team ranked in the Top 10. Mississippi a 19-0 loser to Texas in the 1966 Bluebonnet Bowl had finished 12th in final UPI Poll a couple of weeks before the game.
By the time Fred Akers was coaching, the number of bowl games had doubled to 16. Akers disappointing 2-7 bowl record included seven games against Top 15 opponents. As mentioned before Longhorn fans were particularly puzzled over his teams ability to play at a high level against elite teams in the regular season, and then when having a month to prepare coming up short.
We really don’t have to go into any details, espeically about the 1984 Cotton Bowl, now do we?
The number of bowl games have doubled once again, to make it 32 post-season contests. Any team with a warm pulse can get into a bowl game, and it has watered down the competition level. In the Horns last ten bowl games, Texas has played two teams in the Top Ten (USC, Oregon) two teams not even ranked (LSU, Iowa) three teams ranked between #12-#15 (Michigan, Arizona State, Washington State) and three teams ranked between #21-#25 (Washington, Arkansas and Mississippi State ). Like the regular season, Brown’s bowl teams have beaten the mid-ranked teams.
So there you have it, a look at some comparative data among three decades of Texas football.
What does it all mean?
Damned if I know.
Except that football season can’t get here soon enough.
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Activity
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Blake Stansbery commented on the blog post Recruiting the Trenches ago
I like my wine in a box…. I like my wine in a box GIIIRL
SHARETHIS.addEntry({ title: ””, url: ”” });
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Sailor Ripley commented on the blog post Did Rick Barnes use a plant last night to distract KU players? ago
We commented on the lass during telecast. Thanks for, getting this up, so to speak.
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Mister Mike commented on the blog post Recruiting the Trenches ago
Sailor’s sponsoring it? Holy shit…that likely means goats, togas, and lots of cheap wine.
Welcome to the network!
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Farmer Ted commented on the blog post Recruiting the Trenches ago
Nice job with this – and welcome to the network, on behalf of Better Off Red. See you at the Fantake retreat in Vegas that Sailor Ripley is sponsoring this summer!
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J Rog commented on the blog post Game Day: Spurs vs. Lakers Open Thread ago
Fell apart in the fourth quarter again. Can’t give up 28 points to close out a game. Spurs, Longhorns….heartache once again.
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Farmer Ted commented on the blog post Thoughts on the win in Austin ago
Nice job Hiphop. Very nice to win what is probably the toughest game on the schedule handily, although the Hawks obviously caught UT at a good time.
The Morningstar FT was terrible and hilarious. He said the ball was wet, which clearly means Texas was cheating somehow. Would the second chance off balance leaner
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skymonkeyhorn commented on the blog post Texas Hoops vs. Kansas: Post-Mortem 32 seconds ago
We are bound to the past no matter how great the past is, we are bound to fail if we do not look to the future.
The End -
J Rog wrote a new blog post: Missed Opportunities: Spurs vs. Lakers Recap 6 minutes ago
Whiskey. Tango. Foxtrot. This game was served up on a silver platter for the Spurs and they managed to fumble it like a Minnesota Viking in the playoffs.
I think perhaps Will Ferrell can describe my emotions on the current state of the Spurs season better than I.
The Spurs hung around for most of the
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slugfest commented on the blog post Texas Hoops vs. Kansas: Post-Mortem 8 minutes ago
EP, I get your point, but I don’t think the fact that Texas hasn’t won a tourney came as an underdog doesn’t support it. Teams are favored because they are better. The odds that they win are greater than those who are not favored. It’s not like Texas goes into games with a secret weapon
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Mister Mike commented on the blog post Did Rick Barnes use a plant last night to distract KU players? 13 minutes ago
I think KU should demand an immediate investigation. Find someone to get to the bottom of this.
I volunteer myself.
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Trips Right commented on the blog post Top 8 Teams in College Hoops 16 minutes ago
Georgetown?
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RRR commented on the blog post Thoughts on the win in Austin 16 minutes ago
Good write up, hiphop. I love the versatitility of the Morris twins on defense. Xavier Henry is probably the key to a big run in the tournament. If he starts hitting open looks, the inside game will really open up. Post to post passing is fun to watch.
It’s pretty nice when
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Trips Right commented on the blog post Texas Hoops vs. Kansas: Post-Mortem 20 minutes ago
PB, just talking. I’m not ready to replace him but something has to change. The comment about playing 3 on 5 three quarters into the season is just astoundingly bad.
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Blake Stansbery commented on the blog post Petrino Building Fence Around Arkansas 29 minutes ago
Here is more info on Frazier. He is such a great player, and Arkansas needs to land him in a big way.
http://www.kiehlfrazier15.com/Home.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ow1mOrMQXYw
These Highlights are from his Sophomore year, and he had a bigger and better 2009. OH MY!
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Blake Stansbery commented on the blog post Petrino Building Fence Around Arkansas 29 minutes ago
Here is more info on Frazier. He is such a great player, and Arkansas needs to land him in a big way.
http://www.kiehlfrazier15.com/Home.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ow1mOrMQXYw
These Highlights are from his Sophomore year, and he had a bigger and better 2009. OH MY!
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Blake Stansbery commented on the blog post Petrino Building Fence Around Arkansas 29 minutes ago
Here is more info on Frazier. He is such a great player, and Arkansas needs to land him in a big way.
http://www.kiehlfrazier15.com/Home.html
These Highlights are from his Sophomore year, and he had a bigger and better 2009. OH MY!
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Trips Right commented on the blog post Texas Hoops vs. Kansas: Post-Mortem 32 minutes ago
It takes more time…unless you’re a Kentucky fan.
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RRR commented on the blog post Mid-Season Thoughts and OU Pre-Game 33 minutes ago
Thanks Trips. I’m hoping for lots of Willie Warren trying to be Sheron Collins. TMG in sync is the scariest thing to face in Norman. That or we get beat up on the boards which seems to be recurring theme of Texas Tech road games.
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slugfest commented on the blog post Texas Hoops vs. Kansas: Post-Mortem 34 minutes ago
I don’t think it’s a case of RB not being able to coach, or doing a poor job of coaching. If you read the entirety of Katz’ blog post, he clearly sounds like a coaching searching for answers — answers that come in the form of players contributing, doing what they are coached to do.
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Blake Stansbery commented on the blog post John Pelphrey’s Unconventional Approach 41 minutes ago
I agree that an NIT bid would be acceptable this year, but that if the Razorbacks can get to 20 wins they will have a very good chance at the NCAA Tourney.
Our RPI is bad, and we have no signature wins.
However, we have 8 games left on the SEC regular season schedule. If we
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Blake Stansbery commented on the blog post John Pelphrey’s Unconventional Approach 41 minutes ago
I agree that an NIT bid would be acceptable this year, but that if the Razorbacks can get to 20 wins they will have a very good chance at the NCAA Tourney.
Our RPI is bad, and we have no signature wins.
However, we have 8 games left on the SEC regular season schedule. If we
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Blake Stansbery commented on the blog post Recruiting the Trenches 46 minutes ago
TP welcome to the network.
I like how you broke this down, and identified which positions history shows a high star ranking has proven to be important. I personally feel that after what all the recruiting sites dub their top players that there is a major falloff. We all love that the recruiting sites bring
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Art Vandelay commented on the blog post Texas Hoops vs. Kansas: Post-Mortem 46 minutes ago
Groundhog Day said:
February 9th, 2010 at 10:00 am“How can everyone on the team have worse basketball sense than my 5th graders? Honestly? We are the dumbest bunch I have ever seen. We weren’t earlier in the year. Hell, Bradley was smartest player, by far, in any of the summer h.s. games. Now he plays
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Farmer Ted commented on the blog post Petrino Building Fence Around Arkansas 48 minutes ago
Good stuff JA. But the Huskers call dibs on any dual threat QB named Frazier thankyouverymuch.
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Hiphopopotamus commented on the blog post Did Rick Barnes use a plant last night to distract KU players? 51 minutes ago
I’m convinced.
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skymonkeyhorn commented on the blog post Texas Hoops vs. Kansas: Post-Mortem 56 minutes ago
“No, but I became a man in Juarez.”
I bet in your fantasy you were the donkey in the show ? No ?“Eight Dollar drink-and-drowns, and cans that merely say “beer” in Juarez will turn anyone into a man”
That is why Trips was drinking river water by the bridge for too many years. In the -
Darius Pourceau commented on the blog post John Pelphrey’s Unconventional Approach 57 minutes ago
I don’t think we have to win the SEC tourny necessarily. If we make it to the SEC Tourny championship game and have won about 20 games, I would say a tourny bid would look likely. But that is a pretty big task. I know no one cares about the NIT, but that wouldnt be
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Nordberg commented on the blog post Texas Hoops vs. Kansas: Post-Mortem 1 hour, 2 minutes ago
I like Varez Ward, but he doesn’t seem like the magical missing piece to me. And we’ve got like 15 other guys on scholarship. Losing Varez Ward shouldn’t turn the season into a trainwreck.
Barnes’ “we’re going to fix it” quotes are starting to remind me of Greg Davis talking about fixing the running game. If
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Mister Mike commented on the blog post Thoughts on the win in Austin 1 hour, 3 minutes ago
Don’t follow basketball as much as you guys do here, but I did watch that game last night. Using my extensive experience in analyzing the sport (next to none) the game felt like it had that “Big Game” feel to it, but somehow it just didn’t turn out that way. Kind of…lackluster?
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Nordberg commented on the blog post Texas Hoops vs. Kansas: Post-Mortem 1 hour, 12 minutes ago
How much is Mark Few making? Hell, make a run at Izzo. We can do that kind of shit now.
Trips that Barnes quote is infuriating, considering that our entire fanbase has been saying that exact same line for months. Has he been hoping this whole time that they’d turn into Augustin and Gibson?
dick said:
July 25th, 2008 at 8:14 pm
can you throw in a comparison to Mark Richt while you are at it?
RC Horn said:
July 25th, 2008 at 8:28 pm
Outstanding and interesting article. Thanks for posting it!!
Beergut said:
July 25th, 2008 at 9:58 pm
interesting article
I had no idea Akers was so good against top 10 teams.
TaylorTRoom said:
July 26th, 2008 at 8:35 am
A couple of thoughts-
1. In their first ten years, Royal, Akers, and brown all received heavy criticism for offensive conservatism. Royal was panned for being too fond of the quick kick, Akers was famously told to, “Turn the page!” of the playbook, and Brown is criticized for going fetal against top opponents. Frankly, I’m not sure why there might be a trend.
2. In Royal’s era, bowl games were almost exhibitions, unless they might decide a post-season MNC award. His staff probably spent more time keeping players out of trouble than game-planning.
I might look at records against ranked opponents using final (end of season) ranks, rather than ranks at the time of play, to see if any trends jump out.
srr50 said:
July 26th, 2008 at 9:16 am
“In Royal’s era, bowl games were almost exhibitions, unless they might decide a post-season MNC award. His staff probably spent more time keeping players out of trouble than game-planning.”
I’m not sure I buy that TTR. Yes, the final rankings were out before the bowl games, but since there were so few, you were lining up against a elite program more often than not.
And since there weren’t that many bowls it was more of a distinction to play in one. It certainly meant more to be playing on Jan. 1.
Royal’s teams didn’t win all their bowl games, but during his first ten years, they showed up to play in all of them.
8straight said:
July 26th, 2008 at 12:11 pm
It would be interesting to see the assistant coaching turn over in the three regimes. I can’t speak to DKR’s group but, if I rememeber correctly, Fred had a staff that was well thought of and stayed together for at least the first five years he was at UT. I believe Leon Fuller left to take the HC at Colorado St. in’82.
I think the hype for Mack’s first group was that they had all been coordinators at one time or another. It did not take long to see that the hype was just that in several cases. Mack could have benefited greatly from a Leon Fuller/DC or a Leon Manley/Off. off Fred’s staff who took some great, and not so great, talent and coached them up pretty good. Mack’s hesitation to make changes has really cost him.
TexasFootball said:
July 26th, 2008 at 6:07 pm
Very interesting read, srr50. The same three and their respective staffs were miles apart in the way they recruited our high school players. Coach Royal and by extension Campbell, Zapalac, and the rest of his staff would never cut a corner or brother-in-law a single day of practice—if anything a Bowl game preparations brought the best out of them. Course it was a different time back then—I guess.
srr1950 said:
July 26th, 2008 at 6:20 pm
“I might look at records against ranked opponents using final (end of season) ranks, rather than ranks at the time of play, to see if any trends jump out.”
I did a quick look at those numbers Taylor and there were a couple of trends that stuck out.
First of all, Royal’s record gets tougher, Akers takes a hit on his Top 10 mark, and Mack’s Top 10 record drops as well. He also loses several games against ranked opponents who fell out after playing Texas.
Darrell Royal
He picks up six more games against nationally ranked opponents when taking into account the final season rankings, and five of them were against Top 10 teams. For instance in 1959, Arkansas and TCU were both ranked between 11-20 when Texas played them, but they both ended up in the Final Top 10.
Darrell Royal 1957-66 (Final Rankings)
Top 10 opponents: 12-10-1 (54.3%)
Top 11-20 opponents: 4-3 (57.1%)
Overall Record Against Ranked Opponents:
16-13-1 (55.0%)
(In-Season Rankings)
Percentage of schedule vs. Top 10 opponents: 16.7%
Percentage of schedule vs. Top 20 opponents: 23.1%
(Final Rankings)
Percentage of schedule vs. Top 10 opponents: 21.3%
Percentage of schedule vs. Top 20 opponents: 27.7%
Fred Akers overall numbers against Top Ten teams takes a hit, but he ends up with exactly the same number of games against ranked opponents either way you look at it (41). Basically looking at the final rankings, you see several teams that Texas played drop after losing to the Horns (and others) while some of the games against mid-ranked or lesser teams, boosted those opponents up in the rankings.
It is also obvious how quickly the program fell during Akers’last three years. From 1977-83 Texas was 17-11 against Top 20 opponents for a winning percentage of 60.7%
The mark against Top Ten was still a very good 10-6 for a 62.5% winning percentage. The last three years of the Akers Era (1984-86) Texas only went 4-8-1 against ranked opponents.
Fred Akers 1977-86 (Final Rankings)
Top 10 opponents: 11-10-1 (54.7%)
Top 11-20 opponents: 10-9 (52.6%)
Overall Record Against Ranked Opponents:
21-19-1 (52.4%)
(In-Season Rankings)
Percentage of schedule vs. Top 10 opponents: 20.2%
Percentage of schedule vs. Top 20 opponents: 34.4%
(Final Rankings)
Percentage of schedule vs. Top 10 opponents: 17.6%
Percentage of schedule vs. Top 20 opponents: 34.4%
For Mack Brown, looking at the Final Season Top 25 rankings, his record against Top 10 teams drops even lower, and his total number of games against nationally ranked opponents is reduced by 10 games. Basically teams ranked between 21-25 that Texas beat during the season dropped out of the rankings.
Mack Brown 1998-2007 (Final Rankings)
Top 10 opponents: 4-14 (22.2%)
Top 11-20 opponents: 10-1 (90.9%)
Top 21-25 opponents: 2-1 (66.7%)
Overall Record Against Top 25 opponents:
16-16 (50.0%)
(In-Season)
Percentage of schedule vs. Top 10 opponents: 14.1%
Percentage of schedule vs. Top 25 opponents 32.0%
(Final Rankings)
Percentage of schedule vs. Top 10 opponents: 14.1%
Percentage of schedule vs. Top 25 opponents: 25.0%
One trend easy to spot. Royal had the best record in his first decade against all ranked opponents (55%). Akers was just above 500 at 52%, and right now Brown is right at 50% against nationally ranked opponents from the final season rankings.
The other trend? Both Royal and Akers were fairly balanced in their success broken down between Top 10 and Top 20 teams.
Meanwhile Mack has suffered at the hands of Top 10 opponents consistently, but has done a much better job of handling the mid-range teams from the national rankings.
20-year Mack Watcher said:
July 26th, 2008 at 8:49 pm
Why does this beergut soul post so much on all the t.u. boards? Is it his burning desire to beat the hell outta t.u? Aaaaaaaaa!!!!
Whenever I go over to the tamc boards I’m almost immediately repulsed to the point of logging right back off. Normal response of a fan who does not in any way feel inferior to his rival.
SlickStreet said:
July 27th, 2008 at 11:14 am
“When Royal took over the program in 1957, he faced nationally ranked opponents in 6 of the 11 games that year. He lost to #1 OU and #7 Ole Miss in the Sugar Bowl, while defeating #4 A&M, #10 Arkansas, #13 Rice and #17 TCU.”
–when we consider that UT had its worst season ever in 1956, going 1-9 and losing by scores like 45-0 to OU and 46-0 to TCU, that’s an amazing accomplishment against top-flight competition.
Horn Brain said:
July 27th, 2008 at 10:28 pm
You boys haven’t been reading your Eyes of Texas.
I’ve got record breakdowns against ranked teams and rivals for Mack/Fred/Darrell as well as Texas as a whole since 1950. I’ve also got Mack compared with Pete Carroll, Stoops, Bowden (Papa), and JoePa. The ranking records are broken down by individual ranking and added up to make ranges like top five, next five, top ten, next ten, top twenty, etc.
Can’t give you the meat for obvious reasons, but this is essentially what my article was about.
J.R.69 said:
July 28th, 2008 at 6:49 am
Good read and excellent analysis. It’s difficult to compare different eras, be it coaching or playing, because of cultural differences, makeup of teams, etc., etc.
Just comparing coaches, however, the biggest distinction I see is that:
Darrell Royal was highly respected and his teams were feared. Mack Brown, not so much in either category. Akers was somewhere in between.
JMO.
JUICE said:
July 28th, 2008 at 7:38 am
I love the Akers-era hat . . .
DBH said:
July 28th, 2008 at 8:13 am
For me, it all boils down to records against top-flight competition and championships, to wit:
Darrell Royal 1957-66
Top 10 opponents: 9-8-1 (52.7%)
Mack Brown 1998-2007
Top 10 opponents 6-12 (33.3%)
Royal won or shared four conference titles in his first ten years, compared to just one for Brown.
Mack Brown, while doing a good job of reviving the program, hasn’t approached Darrell Royal’s level of greatness. Hopefully, he can close the gap in the next few years and bring us some hardware.
Scipio Tex said:
July 28th, 2008 at 10:02 am
Awesome post, srr50.
California Horn said:
July 28th, 2008 at 2:02 pm
Great post and discussion.
To Taylor’s point, using end of season rankings has advantages, principally that it corrects for outcomes against teams which were ranked or unranked undeservedly at the time of the game, particularly early in the season. Though I also imagine those tend to average out.
But it creates a different problem, which is that winning or losing, particularly to a program like Texas, is itself highly determinative of whether that team ends up finishing ranked, and particularly whether they end up finishing in the top 10.
In three of our last five bowl games — 2003 Washington State, 2005 Michigan, 2007 Arizona State — our opponent did finish or for certain would have finished the season top 10 by beating us (all three were ranked between #12 and #15 going into the game). None of the three did finish or would have finished top 10 by losing to us.
So we basically could have gone 0-3 against top 10 teams at worst, or 0-0 against top 10 teams at best. That doesn’t seem like a very useful measure of how our program or our coaches do against “top 10 opponents.” We played a given opponent in each of those games, and all we could do is either beat them or lose to them, so the credit for winning should be equal to the debit for losing.
It almost seems like the ideal thing would be use final ranking for your opponents in the first two thirds of the season, and use the ranking at the time of the game for the last third of the season, or something like that. Because the early season rankings are the most inaccurate and based on projections and assumptions, whereas the late season rankings are based mostly on actual accomplishment in that season.
California Horn said:
July 28th, 2008 at 2:20 pm
Thinking about it some more, the same was true for the 2000 Holiday Bowl. #8 Oregon finished top 10 by beating us, and would have finished outside the top 10 if they had lost to us.
TaylorTRoom said:
July 28th, 2008 at 4:23 pm
Cali, you’re absolutely right about game results skewing the stats. Would it be better to use Sagarins, or some least squares ranker that doesn’t weigh the games at the end of the season more heavily than those at the beginning?
I remember hating the stat about Chris Simms’ record against top 10 teams. He led the Horns to a gutsy win at KSU one time, when he had noting in the way of a running game. The ‘cats weren’t top 10 at the time, but I think they finished top 10. He got no credit for a very difficult win.
Beergut said:
July 28th, 2008 at 9:30 pm
I hate it when the media says something like, “They only beat one (or two or three or X number) team that ended up ranked at the end of the season” when the team they played and beat was ranked at the time the game was played. If the team in question had lost the game to the ranked team, they would still be ranked. Same goes for saying someone only played X number of teams who finished with a winning record, when some of those teams would have finished over .500 had they beat that someone in their game.
Hope that makes some sense.Basically, if you beat a team that ended the season 5-7, I don’t thin they should criticize you for beating a team that finished under .500, when if that team had beaten you, they would be a .500 team.
beowulf said:
July 29th, 2008 at 3:20 am
Great read, Steve.
When did the Longhorn logo become the distinguishing symbol on our helmets? Did Royal initiate that? Anyone?
srr50 said:
July 29th, 2008 at 4:31 am
Thanks ‘Wulf. I believe Royal added the Longhorn logo on the helmet in 1961.
Jonathan said:
July 29th, 2008 at 1:59 pm
I’m an Auburn fan that randomly stumbled across this. I think comparing the records is interesting, but comparing the eras is not very fair to Mack Brown. Sure, he’s stumbled against OU, but I believe there are more competitive teams, more importantly, more elite players spread around to the teams, that makes Mack’s era much more competitive as a whole. I would say the overall quality of your typical # 8 team in the 50’s and 60’s was not as good as the typical # 8 team of the 2000’s….meaning the difference these days between #1 and #15 is not as much as it used to be (just look at all the upsets last year).
Just to stir it up, if Mack Brown could borrow Tommy Tuberville’s record against top 10 teams in the last 6 years (15-6), UT would have had a couple more titles in his 10 years.
Good luck this year guys, hope you beat OU!
Jonathan said:
July 31st, 2008 at 8:12 am
Quick example of what I mentioned above…in 1957 Darrell Royal’s team finished 6-4-1 and finished #11 in the polls. In 2003 10-3 only got Mack Brown #14. In fact, UT has won 10 or more games 21 times, 1/3 of those (7) have been by Mack Brown. (yes, I know they play more games now, but it’s still a significant achievement).
Side note: 1957 National Champs…10-0 Auburn University.
utstudboy said:
July 31st, 2008 at 8:54 am
The difference between Mack Brown and Fred Akers is that Mack made all the right calls in his big chance. he put the right players on the field and let them play. You can’t say the same for Fred.
srr50 said:
July 31st, 2008 at 4:32 pm
That’s more because the polls came out before, rather than after bowl games.
But again, Texas played four Top 10 teams in 1957, and only one Top Ten team in 2003.
And no I don’t buy your theory that the talent is so much better distributed today as to make a relative difference between Top Ten teams of the era.
Maybe at the bottom (21-25) but everyone was playing by the same rules back in the 50’s 60’s and since it was basically single platoon football, the talent was spread out more in terms of no specialization.
True That.
Of course Auburn won the AP national title while Ohio State won the UPI coaches vote. Seems Auburn was ineligible for a bowl game that year because they were on probation for paying a couple of HS recruits. :)
Grab bag from the Big 12 blogosphere … | Northeast Kansans for Nebraska said:
August 16th, 2008 at 6:37 pm
[...] Barking Carnival.com looks at the coaching careers of Mack Brown, Darrell Royal and Fred Akers — the only three coaches in Texas school history to last 10 years or more at their job. [...]